Mercurysteam's Hangout
BARRACKS => Gameplay Feedback => Topic started by: Muzét on September 28, 2017, 08:38:04 PM
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You shouldn't be blocked from building new weapons because you don't want to play as an antagonist. You should release special customization (I insist on that part) that wouldn't affect the gameplay - since from what I read craft weapons seems to be better.
It's so frustrating. I don't like PvP that much and I certainly don't like playing as an antagonist at all. I feel like I'm a Free AAM, Automated Aleph Machine. I've got stressful vibe from playing as an antagonist and I'm twice as frustrated since I can't build the weapon I want after the random roulette which finally give it to me.
Why is that fair? Why did you, MercurySteam, to do that? I'm frustrated. A LOT.
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Totally agree. Why the hell was antagonist rank implented to be able to make weapons?
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I'll throw my dice in here.
I'm an avid believer in team play. In games like Evolve I rarely would play monster. Out of the 300+ hours I invested in that game I can say it was about 3 games.
I don't want to feel like I'm forced to play the Antagonist just so I can proceed to unlock better weapons. The reward system needs to be reworked. Give them skins they can unlock with in game currency and special emotes and stuff.
TLDR; I shouldn't have to play a game style I don't want just so I can upgrade the normal game mode.
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Agreed.
PS: On the same note, I shouldn't be forced to play a character I don't like just because other players have taken the one(s) I do...
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most of them not better though, but diffirent, all of started weapons quite viable (not sure about Shae though, I haven't used her new weapons and I don't like her started weapon (or I don't like Shae in general, idk)).
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most of them not better though, but diffirent, all of started weapons quite viable (not sure about Shae though, I haven't used her new weapons and I don't like her started weapon (or I don't like Shae in general, idk)).
Aim at the middle cursor, after it locks on. Keep aiming , a secondary circle will appear. Fully charged it insta kills Konstatin instantly. No wound. Halfway for insta kills on Harec and Shae. Etc.
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most of them not better though, but diffirent, all of started weapons quite viable
I didn't say that they weren't viable but they're inferior.
Harec.
• Aura Mortis : can be charged for 400% more damage (300% on standard) and won't increase stress gauge
• Ignis Futis: Rate/Power of Fire Increased Greatly (can't judge it since I do'nt have it but it's still a rare weapon so he should be high af) and can do 200% more damage by using Aleph.
Shae.
• Light Pulse 11C-A: Can Aim up to three targets at the same time. (1 on standard)
• FOCUS KAA7: You can charge the power before aiming (kinda like Konstantin's standard)
Alice.
• VINC "Eager" 23-1: Didn't understand what's the "buff" here.
• Smoking Daisy: Allows you coupled with your double jump ability to make some pretty explosions on your enemies
Lycus Dion:
• Shit Happens: Can shoot 4 times (1 on standard) but you need to aim in a certain order since you've got four - weird - cannons.
• Spinning Coin: Horizontal Cannon allows you to hit enemies behind small walls. Vertical Cannon allows you to reduce the scattering.
Hans.
• Ansgar "warm" MM1: Shoots small AoE that deals constant damage for several seconds.
• USU-21: You can speed up and slow down your projectile speed if you respectively move forward or backwards.
Mikah:
• Mamy: Each time you reload the scattering we'll be different. And I'm guessing that - since it's rare - it shouldn't be higher than the standard one just lower (or if you're unlucky you should have a lil higher scatter.)
• K&K N90: Higher Rate of Fire but also higher scattering than standard.
KONSTANTIN:
• Ogon Shtorm BV: You won't be able to shoot if you reached overheat (while you can on standard with a really high scattering), you need to wait for it to cool off before shooting again but higher Power of Fire.
• HORNET HH3: Ammos bounce on walls and got a safe who will stop the fire if overheating.
Now tell me that most of them are not better.
14 weapons (-1 that I couldn't explain). Crafted weapons are better. Not in every way but they're improving the way you use your standard weapon. I'm taking Konstantin for example:
Both his crafted stop firing once overheating, but as Konstantin if you keep firing on your overheating standard weapon you're bad - the scattering is huge. So in the end, it's not really a trade off to not being able to fire at all.
PS: On the same note, I shouldn't be forced to play a character I don't like just because other players have taken the one(s) I do...
Since it's a story mode it's awkward to be able to pick the same character twice. Specially when you have the enemy that can make a clone out of the Raiders. Maybe once a player have finished the story they can allow it to pick the Raiders they want no matter what.
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I can only talk about weapon I've used or saw people using it:
Alicia 2nd shotgun: you said on your own
Harec Aura Mortis: yes, you can charge it up to 400%, but it took way to long to even start to charge, when original one start to charge almost instantly. In a PvP situation you very often don't have time to aim for ages, so yeah, having a little charge than having none at all. Having no stress is a very little buff also, since people still can follow your bullet tracer anyway I believe.
Konstantin Shtorm BV: it have really good fire power, agree, but it overheated very-very fast (also you can't shoot when you overheated as you mentioned already). So with this gun Konstantin lose a lot of his "supressive" ability, as well as decreased his minion clearing ability (not sure on that one though).
Well, there is still many things to try out, but what I see a lot of people very early jump to conclusions without even trying stuff before judge it. "I heard something, looks op on the paper" is not an argument.
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"I heard something, looks op on the paper" is not an argument.
Not my argument at all since I took the time to compare some of them to their standard counterpart.
Harec Aura Mortis: yes, you can charge it up to 400%, but it took way to long to even start to charge, when original one start to charge almost instantly. In a PvP situation you very often don't have time to aim for ages, so yeah, having a little charge than having none at all. Having no stress is a very little buff also, since people still can follow your bullet tracer anyway I believe.
They can't follow the bullet since:
1: It's almost instant
2: Your stress gauge don't increase so they won't know where it's coming from unless they see the trail from afar.
And the charge doesn't decrease (While the standard do after a certain time) so you can take your time charging/aiming it.
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Man, see, I don't judge your opinion about the whole system "antogonist rank for crafting", but I disagree with your arguments to prove the point.
Not my argument at all since I took the time to compare some of them to their standard counterpart.
you haven't use this weapon or saw anyone doing something insane with that, just judge by discription. Thats exactly what I meant by "good on the paper, looks op". Because you have no clue what are you talking about.
They can't follow the bullet since:
1: It's almost instant
2: Your stress gauge don't increase so they won't know where it's coming from unless they see the trail from afar.
And the charge doesn't decrease (While the standard do after a certain time) so you can take your time charging/aiming it.
You don't need to follow bullet, because you have to follow bullet TRACER, I just checked it ingame, it keeps in the air for about a second, more than enough to see the direction of fire. No adrenaline also didn't make you fully invisible, didn't you know? If you faced at least half-decent team they would be perfectly aware there is a sniper on the field so they will constantly check all possible line of sights for snipers. And yeah, when you're stalking you're not invisible either, just so you know.
No adrenaline works good for snapshots and fast disengage, 400% charge works when people unaware of you (so almost never), and there is almost no synergy between those two.
This gun have its usability, but it's definately 100% not op, or better than original one. Definately some people may disagree with some (or all) of my points about this gun and it's okay, but to have your opinion about the gun you need at least use it and not just read description.
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Flat out, the Devs do not care what we think or want. Its all about making money,
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Why do I need wait several DAYS to buy my earned weapons? That's stupid!
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While I think it's interesting, I am not a fan of the the Antagonist requirement to build a weapon. I sit WAITING for almost FIFTEEN MINUTES to play as an Antagonist. Remove the requirement please. I'm not good at Player vs. Player, and having this is just...frustrating, and makes me *almost* regret buying the Founders Pack.
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I think it would be fine if the antag rank could be used to replace one of the two other options, but being a third requirement is... unpleasant.
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The antagonist rank shouldn't at all be needed to craft a weapon, what an annoying decision.
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Hello,
Thanks all for your feedback. Yes, some rewards are dependant on playing as the Antagonsit, but achieving the required rank is not truly that hard, needing only to win a few games in order to meet the requirements.
This was a conscious design decision. Raiders' 4 vs 1 core gameplay is ingrained into the mechanics and the rewards system itself. As we have commented in the past, we pay close attention to your feedback, and that will have a direct impact in the game in the long run.
Having said that, weapon are valuable, and (like in any game) valuable rewards aren't easy to access and require some dedication to be obtained. If you plan your way towards unlocking one new gun once you have obtained the blueprint, you will find it's a quite smooth process.
As Muzét points out on his great post about the different weapons available, the unlockable weapons work more as a sidegrade than as an upgrade, allowing you to explore different ways to play with the same characters.
Thanks for your input!
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At least the answer is clear :
- always 4v1 (solo won't ever be a real thing)
- always have to wait for a full team to play (even for a long time)
- forced to play as the antagonist (1v4) at one point to enjoy your reward (blueprints)
A shame for co-op/PvE players like me who liked the design, background and overall atmosphere of this game.
If you change your mind, I'll happily come back, but until then, I'll be on Warframe ;)
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Totally agree with TS
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I can't craft weapons without playing antagonist, so I stopped playing.
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OMG
This is so stupid decision... I even cant believe it
Devs want to see this game dead I think.
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Hello,
Thanks all for your feedback. Yes, some rewards are dependant on playing as the Antagonsit, but achieving the required rank is not truly that hard, needing only to win a few games in order to meet the requirements.
This was a conscious design decision. Raiders' 4 vs 1 core gameplay is ingrained into the mechanics and the rewards system itself. As we have commented in the past, we pay close attention to your feedback, and that will have a direct impact in the game in the long run.
Having said that, weapon are valuable, and (like in any game) valuable rewards aren't easy to access and require some dedication to be obtained. If you plan your way towards unlocking one new gun once you have obtained the blueprint, you will find it's a quite smooth process.
Hi,
First, thank you for taking the time to answer me.
Now I'd like to explain a point. It's not "some" rewards. It's every single weapon except the standard one which are hide behind Antagonist play mode. Weapons that could fit better a player playstyle.
I know you don't need to do many games. Yet, you need 3 things in order to achieve it: Win, Avoid Loose at all cost and specially Having Fun. I do NOT have fun at all playing this gamemode. The only places I feel like I have a heavy chance of winning if the last episode of Chapter 1 with the Antagonist Beasts. And I don't even want to play it - even if I could pick the level I would invade. Why? Simply because I'm a co-op player. I prefer supporting my teammates rather than dealing raw damage.
I tried Antagonist mode once. And I won't hide it. I was this close to Alt + F4. Maybe I even did it I can't remember. It was frustrating as it was hell going ham upon my soul. I didn't like it at all. I couldn't go melee without finding myself in at least a 2v1 nor I could stay away from them without being targeted by many - if not all - of them.
Your decision might have been conscious. But, not conscious enough. You didn't think about players that wouldn't like to play PvP. I wouldn't mind having to pay more gold for it. (But i would definitely mind I f I needed two BP - one is already a hassle)
I don't mind weapons being hard to get. I don't mind having to play a russian roulette to get a BP. I don't mind having to do X times the level to finally get it. What I do mind is the fact that I'm being forced upon something that makes me have a nightmare everytime I think about doing it.
I. don't. want. to.
As I stated in the first post. You could give custom rewards for ranking antagonist, emotes, rare cards, special costumes. Yet, I don't want to be locked from the weapon I want because I have to play a gamemode that I don't like at all.
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Tried antagonist in beta, don't liked it. So i think "ok when game is out i don't want to play antagonist cuz i like coop not pvp"
So when i figured u need antagonist rank to build weapons i return to play as antagonist, and now i like it even if i'm not good, even if i lose, cuz i know that i help people to have good time with the game. Also plaiyng as antagonist is very instructive for the raiders role; u can learn spawning points, tactics ecc..
When u do the same missions over and over the antagonist is the true spice of this game, u know the mission are the same but i have to change your team approach based on the antagonist strategy.
Do u really have fun plaiyng over and over missions without antagonist? I dont think so.
So ok at this moment without the need for weapons mabe a 10% of players will play as antagonist.
If in the future devs plans to give different reward to antagonist like Muzét says (gold,cards ecc..) it will be good but we have to mantein the balance or the game will suffer.