OP is asking to basically have the co-op experience without the added feature of having a real-life opponent trying to hinder you, so I don't know why everyone is telling him there's no point to single player etc.

I was wondering this too, last I played. I think it's fair to want a co-op experience over something that loosely resembles a versus setup or an "Evolve" mode. Having an option to play missions with "invasions" enabled or disabled would be nice.

Maybe a discussion on melee in general? I played my first match where an Antagonist dropped in. Multiple situations resulted in just getting grappled from behind with no real method of awareness, having them around a corner invisible to me and grappling out of cover which gives me a solid .5 seconds to react (the grapple windup for their character was incredibly short compared to the NPCs), or me having gotten into a fight with a standard enemy and just getting grappled during that.

There doesn't seem to be a way to easily and quickly switch between targets, and attempting to melee out of an action doesn't really work either. Or I go to dodge an enemies attack, and in the process the Antagonist goes to grapple me without me being able to get an attack in to counter in time because I am locked into the dodge.

I appreciate the Souls-like experience of an invader, and I appreciate the diversity a melee system brings to a shooter. But if you want there to be fighting/melee combat, I don't think it's really balanced to have a situation where 2 NPCs and an Antagonist can all charge you and there's no clear way to get out of that situation given the current melee system. If dodge is a method of countering and not simply a roll/escape animation, you're left with nothing you can do in a situation where things are happening too rapidly and in close proximity to be able to determine quickly enough what the biggest threat is.

Also maybe the tutorial should be longer and more varied. Showing a single characters skill and how to walk into cover isn't much. I didn't even fully understand that you have to melee enemies to acquire ammo until I got into a match (unless I totally missed a cue, all I remember was hearing "You'll need their supplies for later" and that being the information you receive suggesting that's your method of picking up ammo).

tl;dr melee needs some work.

Quote from: Ebisu_rkz on September 23, 2017, 06:07:00 PM

I dont think lot of ppl will read that. You can't call a tutorial some text guide.

You only need to look at some new streamers that this game need a melee tutorial, and probably an aleph tutorial too. It is where most new players look lost.

problems of people who can not read in 2d17

You see, for this logic to work, you'd have to literally have never had any trouble in any game ever because you're implying people are stupid or lazy because a 6 panel melee discription wasn't enough for them.

Thing is, I know you've had trouble in games, so stop being a turbonerd.

To make another car reference, it's like telling someone how a stick shift works on paper, then thinking they'll have absolutely no issues doing it in practice. Additionally, learning HOW to use melee during a mission and possibly ruining the whole thing for yourself or your team is awful when you should be able to go to a tutorial or practice area to get it down first.