[ProjectEfuzion]

Regarding Ginebra’s ricochet gun oneshotting through a full Lycus shield, this shouldn’t be allowed and needs a nerf. Especially with a medium clip size and fire/reload rate. Getting real tired of getting oneshot out of nowhere with 400+ damage through a lycus shield. Would like to see this weapon getting a nerf.

[Level9Drow]

The Schleuder absolutely needs a nerf. I love Ginebra, and she's my main (not bu choice, but because of card and blueprint luck). Shlueder is WAY too strong. I prefer Javelin anyways.

[TheBrentWoody]

Think about this...IF the Schleuder receives a nerf...then it will be -trash-.  If it can't oneshot a player..what chance does it have against Hades Minions?  The real fix might be lowering ad health and increasing raider health some.  ?? Yeah?

[Level9Drow]

Think about this...IF the Schleuder receives a nerf...then it will be -trash-.  If it can't oneshot a player..what chance does it have against Hades Minions?  The real fix might be lowering ad health and increasing raider health some.  ?? Yeah?

One shotting isn't the issue. There are plenty of things Characters can do to one shot. But there's a trade off with other characters that just doesn't exist with theSchleuder in Ginebra's hands.

Harec, Doldren and Shae can effectively one "shot" or one move kill, but they have very low health, long reloads, and in Doldrens case, very vulnerable. So there is risk to doing this or a risk playing the 60 health character in the first place. so they're balanced.

Konstantin can bubble grab you, but that's on a CD. Loaht has to endure damage first and get close to you in beast form, again on a CD.

Ginebra has Council armor and is the fastest character in the game. Her ability has no CD at all. And it's VERY easy to one shot with a Schleuder, aim at the ground in front of them, that's all, and BAM, dead. Not aim at their heads from far away with ONE shot like Harec, not turn invisible, and ability on CD, run up to them and grab, like Shae. Not sneak into enemy lines as a ghost and MAYBE grab, like Doldren. No, with Gin you just walk up to mid range and spam at their feet. And if they get too close, RUN AWAY!! And across the map you heal all damage done to you, then come back and spam their feet.

I don't know what the answer is to fixing the Ginebra situation. She is, I believe, the strongest hero in the game, hands down. I DO know that regardless of what gun she uses, she is fun mechanically. I also know Javalin and her default are too weak close up. Schleuder is too stong, or rather, too easy to use. I'm not sure what the answer should be though.

Nerfing AI health would be good, always. but not in conjunction with raising all raider health. It would have to be one or the other. But if we rais health some characters would be REALY strong. And then you get into the messy business of level stat bonuses and weapon forge %.

[TheBrentWoody]

Oh I meant a hard nerf.  Not a soft nerf.  I've already said it definitely needs to be modified.  But one shoting isn't the issue.  Even if it doesn't one shot you were able to crank out all 5 shots in seconds is a problem.   Thats why I think the -FIRST BOUNCE- should = dmg to No Bounce and add an additional bounce.  So it progresses 0/1-2-3-4-5 in same damage scale

[Level9Drow]

Yikes, I dunno. I just think they should nerf the first bounce. And make the second bounce do the damage the first bounce used to do. I also think they should buff Javelin and her Default, but just a tad, on close range damage.

[LordDraco3]

I can't wait until we are shooting 800 health Hades shotgunners that hit us for 90 dmg per shot while we shoot back at them with 20 damage nerf darts because EVERYONE askes for everything to be nerfed because another player killed them

Seriously this is the only time people ask for nerfs. Did we really need this thread again?
https://www.raidersofthebrokenplanet.com/community/index.php?topic=1401.0

Seems to make sense to just go back to the first thread, rather than repeat literally everything *again* on all sides of the argument.

[ProjectEfuzion]

I can't wait until we are shooting 800 health Hades shotgunners that hit us for 90 dmg per shot while we shoot back at them with 20 damage nerf darts because EVERYONE askes for everything to be nerfed because another player killed them

Seriously this is the only time people ask for nerfs. Did we really need this thread again?
https://www.raidersofthebrokenplanet.com/community/index.php?topic=1401.0

Seems to make sense to just go back to the first thread, rather than repeat literally everything *again* on all sides of the argument.

It isn’t right for Ginebra with all her mobility to kite you and oneshotting you with that amount of clip size/reload speed and mobility. Ginebra sucks in cqc but how are you able to get to her when all she does is cougar away and oneshotting you even while you have your Lycus shield up. You gotta admit that ain’t right.

High mobility Raiders shouldn’t have that kind of weapon, the only Raiders who can oneshot ya are the Locals but they have low hp which maked them balanced. Otherwise i would be whining about the Focus with Shae which i’m not

[LordDraco3]

So we all agree that powerful guns are OK, but Ginebra, the character, is too powerful to have a good gun. So the solution is to make her into someone who does terrible dps with all of her guns, because her other aspects are too OP?

Cat form needs a nerf, that's my takeaway from personal experience playing against her, and everyone's complaints. She can run around forever uselessly then pop out and wreck with her weapon. Cat form is equal to Hans jetpacks, which got a hard nerf (but a card to make up for it), but cat form remains infinite, limitless, and without cooldown. She can escape any hairy situation at will, and in pvp that makes her very difficult to kill. She escapes, then comes back in for the kill. As antag vs. a Ginebra raider, she can pretty much just run out every survive timer, every time, due to this infinite cat form. That, in and of itself, seems way more OP than a gun that can deal a lot of damage if the shot is set up perfectly. If you haven't used Schleuder, landing a shot like that takes practice to hit on demand, and you have to fight on the correct terrain to even make it possible.

[Level9Drow]

So we all agree that powerful guns are OK, but Ginebra, the character, is too powerful to have a good gun. So the solution is to make her into someone who does terrible dps with all of her guns, because her other aspects are too OP?

Cat form needs a nerf, that's my takeaway from personal experience playing against her, and everyone's complaints. She can run around forever uselessly then pop out and wreck with her weapon. Cat form is equal to Hans jetpacks, which got a hard nerf (but a card to make up for it), but cat form remains infinite, limitless, and without cooldown. She can escape any hairy situation at will, and in pvp that makes her very difficult to kill. She escapes, then comes back in for the kill. As antag vs. a Ginebra raider, she can pretty much just run out every survive timer, every time, due to this infinite cat form. That, in and of itself, seems way more OP than a gun that can deal a lot of damage if the shot is set up perfectly. If you haven't used Schleuder, landing a shot like that takes practice to hit on demand, and you have to fight on the correct terrain to even make it possible.

Well, ok Draco. I would accept a cat form nerf. It is too powerful in conjunction with Schleuder. I just figured they nerf the Schleuder to do less damage on second bounce and maybe buff her default and Javelin a bit for close range, just a bit. But if they need to put a CD on Cat form, or make it so she cant change so quick I could see this happening, especially since you bring up Hans.

We would just need to play her a lot differently and not so "in your face".

[XjabberwockieX]

I agree with Draco as well. No nerf on Schleuder, CD on cougar form like with Hans jetpack. Close quickly on a Ginebra with a mobile raider like Hans or Alicia and go to work, Ginebra might get 3 or 4 shots off in that time depending on distance and wont knock a Hans or Alicia out of the sky easily. Snipe with a Harec or Shae, she is a big target. My point being all of them have their overpowered weapons/card builds. Good players are going to be very dangerous with any character they put the time into. Nerfing her weapon is NOT the answer but restricting her cougar form to allow for a CD is a good compromise for those that feel she is a little too elusive.

[Whitebleidd]

Some ppl on here have said MS is pretty stubborn, well I’m counting on that and hopefully they don’t cave in. It’s always nerf everything these days on every game, be it sp or mp and most of them feel so unnecessary (MHW I’m looking at you and ur dumb bowgun nerf), I’ve looked up some old vids on Loaht and damn it looks like he used to be so much fun.

My personal favorites for countering a schleuder Ginebra are Lycus, Alicia and Shae, I don’t play much Konstantin but as a Ginebra I know I’ve been effectively countered by him (although he pretty much counters anything… well maybe except for Shae), it comes down to the player, the only thing I agree with that has been said is that there could be a lower cap on how much the schleuder fire rate can be upgrade or maybe even remove the ability to upgrade that stat altogether.

[LordDraco3]

tbh is people upgrade the fire rate to just spam bullets, that thing runs out of ammo FAST. It only has like a 30 shot pool. If you're fighting an antag, bait their shots and when they run out, don't allow a melee kill. I know that's easier said than done, but if she's reduced to melee only, she's gonna have a rough time.