[Alex2199]

So I wanna make one thing clear. These changes are great...for raiders. It makes the elites easier to kill and therefore not a major issue on the battle field. So what the problem? Well playing as an antagonist is the problem. Unless an antagonist player drops their MMR to stupidly low percentages, the antagonist has little to no help. I am all for antagonist winning on skill but having a 1 v 4 isn't fun.

Yes, there is no real reason to play antagonist anymore but some players enjoy it. MSE your slowly taking away motivation for players who enjoy playing antagonist. I get its a new system and changes will be made but in its current state...its one sided and frankly a lot of changes has been.

[CaimZheit]

I just wrote wrote similar topic with total opposite thesis, so I need to make some contex. First of all, you play against raiders much more skilled than me and at higher difficulty, so of course they were able to reapct much better to the changes than me and the tier 5 and 6 I'm often paired with. Second you play mostly antagonist , so I guess you play on large open maps where is harder to gank you ("a weapon from the past", "upside down" etc...).  The changes on elites forced raiders to play 2-3 long range characters in every mission, also more experienced players will focus the new threat. My suggestion is to try smaller maps were the elites are now bounded to spawn with their abilities activated.

[Skyline]

This absurd mb make sense  when you will have a limited number of lives.
But now kill 35 times ,die 34 times and you still win..how dare you even talking about antagonists "problems" !! xD

[Alex2199]

I'll admit I am not an amazing antagonist but the problem isn't my skill. Elites are suppose to be stronger enemies and frankly my biggest issue is with the Officer elites. The snipers are basically the same and the melee ones are fine I guess? They were never really a big issue. Just shot them a bunch.

Officer elites are so much easier to kill and its unfair for antagonist because a team of four can easily kill an elite that is suppose to be helping the antagonist but he cant even stay alive for 5 seconds.

[MapacheLunar]

I doubt they will ever fix the problem of matchmaking or difficulty for the antagonists.
Make the changes you make will never be enough to leave the pvp system "good", I think the main problem is due to veteran players who are good at playing, but sabotage the matchmaking by keeping their MMR low because they can't stand losing in pvp.
I think that before they can balance the game, they must solve that problem. What cannot be done because the player base is so low that if they start punishing those players who sabotage the matchmaking by lowering their own MMR, the game will simply be empty.
My MMR is 47% (normally) and when I play as antagonist is incredibly common high-level raiders groups with MMR below 35% making elites useless and regular enemies or engineers not appearing at all (I really hate engineers don't appear)

[Lehi]

I'll admit I am not an amazing antagonist but the problem isn't my skill.

It's fair when you can win, lol.
The raiders happened to be just too efficient to kill elites and minions??? Can you upload some videos so someone can do an analysis?

I played against 50 something MMR antag while ours were almost the same, and the difficulty was around 50. It was at Weapon from the Past. Minions were easy to kill (2 puches), but they appeared a lot. But Elites took a lot of shots before going down. They went immune to cqc as soon as I got close to them, so it was not easy kill.

At a soloQ, I met Ayana antag at the stage escorting Urugal (I forgot the story name.) Her MMR was higher than ours, so the difficulty dropped to 25. But the game was difficult, and we almost lose Urugal. To me, Elites just did fine and were annoying as always.

[MapacheLunar]

I'll adI played against 50 something MMR antag while ours were almost the same, and the difficulty was around 50.

How the hell did you do that the mission MMR would be on par with yours and the antagonist? My MMR fell from 47% to 29% for playing only as antagonist. Always in this same situation.

Look here, my MMR and that of the raiders are almost the same, but the difficulty of the mission is 6%; It was me alone without bots to help me. And the elite were useless.

[Alex2199]

Like MapacheLunar said. I keep my MMR in a reasonable range of 40s, 50s, and sometimes low 60s. However, when I get an antag their MMR is so low that the mission is cranked up to the point where antagonist don't even have to spawn in. I legit spawned played a game where the antagonist Lycus didn't spawn. He called his troops but that's all he had to do. Keep in mind I was playing as a Konstantin with Dual battery and I was getting two shoot.

Also while playing as an antagonist its easy mode. Why? Because my MMR is either higher OR THE SAME. At 48% MMR I found players who were exactly 48% but the mission difficulty was 2%. I had a game where the mission difficulty was -% while fighting against a bunch of tier 1s. That was the day I quit playing antagonist all together.

[Lehi]

Both raiders and antag were tier 1 so that was why difficulty did not drop.
I believe mse wants to make antag’s game very hard for new raiders, so if you have low tier raiders in your team and the antag’s mmr is high, difficulty drops significantly. So, as a consequence, decent skill but low mmr players can ruin the game without showing up.

By the way, I thought we were taking about usefulness of redesigned elites in antag’s game. Alex, why do you complain about compensation to low mmr antag in raiders games? Should I tell you the words?

[Alex2199]

I was simply branching off of MapacheLunar's reply

[MSE_Ojuel]

Officer elites are so much easier to kill and its unfair for antagonist because a team of four can easily kill an elite that is suppose to be helping the antagonist but he cant even stay alive for 5 seconds.

Mmmm, how come?

[Alex2199]

Officer elites are so much easier to kill and its unfair for antagonist because a team of four can easily kill an elite that is suppose to be helping the antagonist but he cant even stay alive for 5 seconds.

Mmmm, how come?

Hello Mister Ojuel <3 Hope your having an amazing day.

I find the officer elites bombs are way easier to avoid now. Don't get me wrong the old system wasn't that great, however, them having that slight advantage would help the antagonist (if there was one) out sense adds mostly just work as a distraction. It could also be a MMR scaling issue which I have heard rumors about it hopefully being fixed soon so I would say wait till then to make any more changes to the add behavior. Also granted all of my testing with this new system has mostly been on Wardogs but I don't imagine that changes anything.

This is purely from an antagonist point of view as well. I haven't really played much raider lately. I have played like one or two games and I still don't treat them as a threat anymore.