[LordDraco3]

Hi LordDraco3,

Have you reported this in spacelords_support@mercurysteam.com?

Yes, thank you. I sent an email back when it happened along with the video link, it was during the Patient Boy double drop chance launch time.

Well in this case it’s largely the games fault, its current system encourages toxicity, if ppl were entering pvp willingly, then I would probably agree grudges and vengeful attitudes would be wrong, but as it stands now, I think it’s almost inevitable, even for normally good willed players

Eh not really. Just because you fight each other doesn't mean it makes sense to be a jerk to them when they are your teammate. That reduces your own rewards, too, for your mission to perform poorly.

I have no idea what triggered this fearstriker guy to be an ass in the middle of the mission when we played together, but it was just random chance that I got to kill him days later as antag for some revenge. I have a video from a couple weeks ago where we played together and he was pretty good, same mission, against an R&R antag. Players ruining the experience that are supposed to be helping you on your own team is 100000% more toxic than someone playing the game modes as intended. Antags are *supposed* to fight and kill raiders. It's like getting upset that a killer hooked you in Dead by Daylight, or the Monster killed you in Evolve. That's their job. And then they want to go back to the team mode play? I see no problem there. They are playing the game, the same as any of us.

tl;dr-- The game is not at fault for someone getting mad at other players for playing their intended role.

[Level9Drow]

Wow, Drow.  Stop holding grudges past one game.  That's called "Toxicity."  It kills gaming communities. And it's probably not emotionally healthy.

Well in this case it’s largely the games fault, its current system encourages toxicity, if ppl were entering pvp willingly, then I would probably agree grudges and vengeful attitudes would be wrong, but as it stands now, I think it’s almost inevitable, even for normally good willed players

Well said, all we have to do is look to the huge library of other games that have high toxicity and you find these games are major PvP hubs.

The other point I think you nailed is that this sadly happens to normally cheery and gentile players. They get thrown into a system that changes their natures. But with this game it's tricky and confusing to the player. If it were pure PvP, they would just leave and stop playing. But instead it tricks the PvEers and lulls them into comfortable experience with some awesome matches against AI, then BAM! Their experience is ruined by an antag and the game is something else they weren't  just experiencing. It's a shock and is more akin, at least for me, to getting your head dunked into cool water then warm water, you get little time to settle into one and the game pretends to be two things at the same time.

Note for the devs: I am FAR from hating this game. I know Enric said some of us do so on his more recent interview. In fact, I love the game, this is what makes it a love hate relationship. You are drawn to something really great and unmatched by any other game, but there's this one glaring blemish on an otherwise perfect thing. You can't leave it because it's amazing, but you have to suffer from this constant thorn in your side to enjoy what you love.

[L E T H A L ☆ C E N T A U R I]

That's true, but my time and rewards are never recompensed. So I take it personal. Whether it's healthy or not is a philosophical quandary up for debate on gaming, PvP, rewards, and wrong or right gamer types.

I listen to my instincts when something happens. Because they don't lie in "accepted social conformity" and causes one to betray their own interest. When I lose I don't care, when I lose and I'm penalized time and productivity my gut tells me I've been wronged. This wouldn't be so bad if I didn't pay money for the game and stuff in it.

I think people forget a fundamental concept in our modern day of gaming that we older gentlemen still remember: This is paid for entertainment, not a job or E-Sports where we get paid. Young gamers grew up with games that are jobs or Darwinistic experiments and so apply this respective philosophy to paid for entertainment. It's strange to me, but I don't feel anyone should suffer when they are paying for entertainment. This is, as you know (dead horse), is why I believe more options make for happy and entertained consumer. In this case that would be optional PvP. Then I wouldn't have to worry about it. PvPers who want to, and enjoy, fighting each-other would get countless entertainment off of each-other, And PvEers who love grinding and that feeling of growth, invested time and progress would also feel entertained.  But we're put in the same soup because we all love the core of the game so much so we suffer through our differences and this breeds toxicity. I don't accept responsibility for toxicity because it's a symptom, not a cause.

But until then, I take names and never forget.

...Wow. Go see a shrink buddy.

[TheBrentWoody]

YOU ARE ENTERING PVP WILLINGLY BY PLAYING A GAME THAT MIGHT BE PVP.  PLAY THE GAME AS INTENDED OR STOP PRETENDING YOUR PART OF THE SOLUTION AND ADMIT TO BEING A PROBLEM.

That is all.  .  "Older Gentlemen."  It is a sport.  It is equivalent to a sport.  You spend time to grow in skill and learn new techniques, you can lose.  If you can't lose then the game gets boring, because it loses its challenge.  Someone didn't wrong you.  They won.  That is all.  You're a table flipper at Monopoly aren't you?

[Level9Drow]

Right, more options are bad. Got it!

I don't play monopoly.

[L E T H A L ☆ C E N T A U R I]

YOU ARE ENTERING PVP WILLINGLY BY PLAYING A GAME THAT MIGHT BE PVP.  PLAY THE GAME AS INTENDED OR STOP PRETENDING YOUR PART OF THE SOLUTION AND ADMIT TO BEING A PROBLEM.

That is all.  .  "Older Gentlemen."  It is a sport.  It is equivalent to a sport.  You spend time to grow in skill and learn new techniques, you can lose.  If you can't lose then the game gets boring, because it loses its challenge.  Someone didn't wrong you.  They won.  That is all.  You're a table flipper at Monopoly aren't you?

Yeah seriously. I remember a news story about a dude who came to another players house and got killed over a game of COD. It's not that serious. It is a fucking game.

[TheBrentWoody]

No one is saying more options are bad.  We're saying they don't currently exist so don't ruin people's experience and learn how to be a team member.  You play with pick up groups, then you're a member of their team.  Even if you went against them before.  Be a team member. It's called sportsmanship.  The same reason we hate RnR and Tolchock. 

[Level9Drow]

YOU ARE ENTERING PVP WILLINGLY BY PLAYING A GAME THAT MIGHT BE PVP.  PLAY THE GAME AS INTENDED OR STOP PRETENDING YOUR PART OF THE SOLUTION AND ADMIT TO BEING A PROBLEM.

That is all.  .  "Older Gentlemen."  It is a sport.  It is equivalent to a sport.  You spend time to grow in skill and learn new techniques, you can lose.  If you can't lose then the game gets boring, because it loses its challenge.  Someone didn't wrong you.  They won.  That is all.  You're a table flipper at Monopoly aren't you?

Yeah seriously. I remember a news story about a dude who came to another players house and got killed over a game of COD. It's not that serious. It is a fucking game.

Because feeding elites is the same as murder. Hyperbole much? Just a tad?

Brent, the 23rd is around the corner, let's see where they want to take this game. I am hoping for better days with less stress, misery and tilting. None of which I consider entertainment.

If certain things don't change, I am simply a byproduct of my environment at that point, I wash my hands of the train wreck that will ensue. I would just quit at that point, but I paid for the game end will ride the situation out to it's inevitable conclusion. I'm not going to walk away when I spent money, I'll burn it out to the end.

I made a post to them about this warning about the current zeitgeist of games and the advantage they could take with their unique game. But the 23rd will either bring a lot more players (both PvPers and PvEers), or have the PvEers move to Monster Hunter World because they are, clearly, no longer welcome here. And, to your credit, never would have been at that point. I just wish it never had the PvE hook to draw us in the first place. This is of course only if my fears are confirmed and it turns out they don't support PvE on the 23rd.

[LordDraco3]

I mean.... I stopped playing MHW after playing the hell out of it, and came back to Raiders. Because there's just nothing to really DO in a purely pve game once you "have everything."

At least when I'm done here I can always throw myself against other players and test my skill. I don't care to get killed by the Behemoth or an Arch-Tempered Kirin for the 20th time because the end game is just a bunch of 1-shotting asshole monsters and nothing to really get out of it.

Also this thread got out of hand 

[Whitebleidd]

YOU ARE ENTERING PVP WILLINGLY BY PLAYING A GAME THAT MIGHT BE PVP.  PLAY THE GAME AS INTENDED OR STOP PRETENDING YOUR PART OF THE SOLUTION AND ADMIT TO BEING A PROBLEM.

That is all.  .  "Older Gentlemen."  It is a sport.  It is equivalent to a sport.  You spend time to grow in skill and learn new techniques, you can lose.  If you can't lose then the game gets boring, because it loses its challenge.  Someone didn't wrong you.  They won.  That is all.  You're a table flipper at Monopoly aren't you?

Not quite, I’ve never seen a pvp selection screen on this game and no amount of caps is gonna change that fact, I’ve entered no pvp willingly.

Videgames are not sports, as their name implies, they are games, no matter how much this new age “gamers” want to think of videogames as their life’s accomplishments.

Two ppl deciding they are going to engage in battle or competition that is “gentlemen” behavior, nothing of the sort is found here.

[TheBrentWoody]

I think you're missing out on the sports part of it and lumping it all in together.  Anyway, you think what you want, this is a competitive game, learn to play to win no matter the circumstance/people you get paired up with, because that's why we're playing this game.

[Whitebleidd]

Like I said, I don’t throw pve matches, pvp however that’s another story… as for competitiveness I see little of it in this game, and I find that to be a good thing, there’s no leaderboards or anything (at least not anymore), I’ve heard antags complain about that fact and maybe it’s something they should add back in if they ever divide pve/pvp, I have nothing against pvp/antags enjoying the game and doing their thing, however MS is wrong in thinking it should happen at the expense of others by giving no options and even more naive is thinking such a system will not invite a lot of toxicity and resentment between players.

[Level9Drow]

I mean.... I stopped playing MHW after playing the hell out of it, and came back to Raiders. Because there's just nothing to really DO in a purely pve game once you "have everything."

At least when I'm done here I can always throw myself against other players and test my skill. I don't care to get killed by the Behemoth or an Arch-Tempered Kirin for the 20th time because the end game is just a bunch of 1-shotting asshole monsters and nothing to really get out of it.

Also this thread got out of hand 

Agreed, it's getting a little escalated. Time to real in my rants and get off my goddamn soap box and calm the F*** down and take two deep breaths. I lose myself sometimes, so I have to get very used to learning to apologize and send out olive branches (learn to be ok with the taste of egg and crow). You guys remind me all the time, and although I know none of you personally, here in the gaming sphere I've accepted my blows from people who I consider reasonable gamers DESPITE our differences. And I'm still learning, I fuck up less these days. You should've seen me on the WoW forums back in Burning Crusades, I was younger and dumber and I've never been banned more in my life.

That being said, think of a hypothetical situation in which a player can accomplish all that he can accomplish, as in MHW, but right when he gets bored he can then try out PvP. That's the environment I was envisioning for games in general. The ability to stay in safety while you progress and then when you want you can "dip your toe in the pool" and if you like it you can stay (the pool being PvP of course) until you get fed up again and you can go back to PvE. Or conversely, if you find it terrible from the get go you can go back to PvE. Or if you are a PvPer and like to compete for most of the time but just have a bad night and want to get away just for a day, then you can relax in PvE. And then when you come to your senses and get bored, you can go back to PvP.

I don't understand why they can't facilitate both. They have the content. No one has to suffer or be marginalized. In fact, games that feature both PvP and PvE are usually the best games, so long as they allow the option to float back and forth. Then the game can fulfill your mood no matter what. You don't have to forsake the other for the benefit of one.

I got my fingers crossed for the 23rd. I'm gonna stay optimistic.

[pululon]

I don't see any problem now in having the two options available, PVE and PVP.
Before 23, yes... since it was pretty hard sometimes to get a match since you had to wait a good amount of time to get in a game (if you have a team is another story), and if you want to reduce the waiting time, you need to put all the players in the same pool, but after 23 is supposed that the player base will grow, and with that you can offer the two options, one for the players that don't want an antagonist, and one for the players that want one.
Isn't a bad idea, in fact, can be a factor that will make the game growth. Anyway, the devs always say that the game evolves in consideration of what players want, and if a group of them want this option, the game can evolve.
And don't see this game like something that "you play as is intended to be played" since the devs told us that they listen to the feedback and react in consequence... so, isn't a bad idea the PVE and PVP option in the future.