[Engelsgaard]

I've read on the (nonofficial) discord, that complaining about antags is reason for bans.
While the complaints didn't bother me there, they bother me here,  especially when people write in all caps, repeat the same message over different threads and don't bring new suggestions/demands/arguments.

This being said, I understand that some people would prefer to play without antag.

Suggestion: In options, make a "no antag" option. And only if all 4 raiders have this option crossed, then the game will not have an antag. So in a random match with people, that's unlikely. But if you and your three friends would really enjoy the game without it, then you won't get antag. It would also help players find together to help them with their mission rewards and team up for that. And teaming up and working together is always great for the community.

Assuming (wrongly) that some people would only play without antag, this would allow them to play with their friends and waiting queues would not be longer for the rest.

2 other things I want to get off my chest:
- if you don't believe that a game is good/fun or will ever be good/fun, don't play it, don't post on the forum.
- to all the mods, devs & so on, I hope you are aware that it might be a very vocal minority that complain about specific things. It still feels bad reading it over and over again and I'm glad you're on discord as well, where you can see & read that people are having lots of fun with your wonderful game, even without censorship.

[Lancer]

Discord is censorship, and i like that idea about optional antag, which we have been posting about for months. It is a new take on it.

[Level9Drow]

Good idea about optional PvP. I never thought of a system like that. However, for your number 2, I am not a quitter and I don't bend the knee to others. Sorry.

[Forge]

"2 other things I want to get off my chest:
- if you don't believe that a game is good/fun or will ever be good/fun, don't play it, don't post on the forum.
- to all the mods, devs & so on, I hope you are aware that it might be a very vocal minority that complain about specific things. It still feels bad reading it over and over again and I'm glad you're on discord as well, where you can see & read that people are having lots of fun with your wonderful game, even without censorship."

Funny how you praise non-censorship while demanding censorship to players on the forums.

If people are not having fun with the product they -should- voice their opinions, because that is how Devs can make those things into consideration when making their decision how to improve their game in the long run.

[Level9Drow]

Exactly. They take over Discord and so the rest of us who don't like antag are forced here, then they come here and try and shit on us here as well. I mean, you godda be a special kind of ass hole to not only hijack one type of medium but go to the people you ran off and try and take theirs from them. That's PvP personality for ya though.

[Engelsgaard]

"Funny how you praise non-censorship while demanding censorship to players on the forums."

Yes, that's what I did, the messages that I read on discord didn't bother me, and they are always quickly gone if they don't interest me. However the forum topics with all caps are still an eyesore.

Furthermore, I am pro censorship, when it regards the form of the message. I am rarely pro censorship when it regards the content. As I mentioned, on the forum I see the same arguments, the same non-constructive feedback in a form where it's (in my opinion) just whining and complaining and not accepting other views or decisions my the devs. I don't go to the Mario-Kart forums and complain that it hasn't enough blood, or that I want an antag.
The developers seem pretty clear that their game differentiates itself from other, in that it has antags. And my suggestions does not lessen this aspect, no person that play with (or as) antag has to wait longer because of it.
Thusly, please keep the aspect of the developers in mind. If you give constructive feedback, think about how much time (work & money) it needs to implement, how it doesn't remove their vision of the game and how other people don't have to wait longer in a queue because if it.

I hope you understand my arguments and I hope you found them constructive for your posts.

[Level9Drow]

But we all know there is no longer any platform left for people who object to mandated PvP don't we? You attack the fact that people post here knowing FULL WELL it is now considered a high crime and blasphemy to the cult on Discord. So we very well can't post there either in the suggestions. And if we bring it up you get moderated hard.

I would say if you don't like PvEers giving feedback and lamenting their concerns you should stay over on the wolves den, it's all about Antags over there. But to want to take away this platform as well seems particularly malicious. Isn't it good enough that you guys have taken over Discord?

[Whitebleidd]

2 other things I want to get off my chest:
- if you don't believe that a game is good/fun or will ever be good/fun, don't play it, don't post on the forum.
- to all the mods, devs & so on, I hope you are aware that it might be a very vocal minority that complain about specific things. It still feels bad reading it over and over again and I'm glad you're on discord as well, where you can see & read that people are having lots of fun with your wonderful game, even without censorship.

I think many of us criticizing, do so especially because we think the game is so good, because it is so much fun (personally I believe it is THE best 3rd person shooter I’ve ever encountered), however on my part, all of that fun has been had exclusively when playing vs the AI, so ofc I’m going to continue to ask for a PVE mode so that when I queue into a match I am guaranteed fun, and don’t have to waste time on pvp matches.

The fact the discord is the way that it currently is makes it even more important the forums remain a neutral ground where both parties can express their likes and dislikes, if you only want to hear positive antag feedback, well… the discord seems to be the perfect place for that.

This issue will never go away as long as it’s not addressed, and saying it’s a minority is a stretch, there’s tons of complaints everywhere, steam reviews, steam forums, this forums, the discord (before it became an official antag heaven), youtube comments, etc, the difference is most ppl that complain about the antagonist system do so and then leave, which is ofc bad for the game…

I think it’s important to highlight that I don’t think most PVE players (that remain) think liking raiders PVP is wrong, nor do we want it gone, what we want is simply fairness and respect for the free time we invest in the game and that means optional PVE, simple as that. What I do personally think is wrong is when PVP players are content with having matches against new players or players that simply do not want to PVP at the time, that type of attitude is selfish, toxic and completely contrary to fair play.

[Satoro]

I like this idea but i would suggest it to be "if host has it toggled on" Considering how many people don't skip cutscenes, obviously not knowing you can rewatch them later without pissing of rest off the team. There would be 1/4 chance to not get antagonist -.-

[Placelord]

You're functionally advocating that criticism on this forum be outright dismissed. Haters gonna hate' is a cop out. It's not about attacking the devs its about letting them know what turns off customers.

Underneath it all, what a lot of those 'complainers' are really saying is; "Spacelords, get out of your own damn way and let me be your whale". The money I'd be putting into this game if I felt confident, well I'd have all of the characters at least.

Do you honestly believe people here are salty because they want to be? Criticism is a vital ingredient for a long term business. You can't fix something that you don't know is broken.

Much like my posts, game design is an iterative process. People know change is part of the deal, and they are naturally going to have an ideal outcome once they've invested. I get that you're looking out for the devs, but that's what they signed up for when they decided to do a live service game.

I don't advocate harassment. I'm saying that the business is all about managing expectations in a transactional framework. As consumers, feedback is really the only play we have other than folding.

[Placelord]

There is a Catch 22 of the match making system not working effectively becase there is not a big enough pool of players (compposed of a variety of skill levels), and there is not a big enough pool of players because the match making system is not currently effective.   What is the solution? (insert "shrug" emoji here.)

Thing is we really don't know if that's the case, without numbers. We assume the population is lacking because of queue times. But it could very well that the  matchmaking is not optimal. I still see mostly tier 6 players on any given night so I don't know if there really is a population problem.

[baconman1912]

Thing is we really don't know if that's the case, without numbers. We assume the population is lacking because of queue times. But it could very well that the  matchmaking is not optimal. I still see mostly tier 6 players on any given night so I don't know if there really is a population problem.
[/quote]



Well we can check when it comes to PC to some extent anyway, Steam tends to show players online for that month.
When it comes to console We can likely put numbers in less then 80k, but not less then 50k. If we're being kind maybe 60k at most, the target audience will have stricter things needed for them to enjoy it.

Though I will admit that only about covers certain countries, Places like Australia will most definately have considerately less players if any at all.
 The Region lock plays a big role in this to a pretty huge extent, so we may never truly know how much players where missing out on until they remove the lock.

Tho really I think the bigger issue here is quite a few people on this Forum don't seem to know or realize what a forum is or what it's used for, It's not Discord nor is it a Blog. It's a place to voice criticism and feedback, a place where that feedback becomes suggestions that improve the product or business.