[taterthot]

Maybe a discussion on melee in general? I played my first match where an Antagonist dropped in. Multiple situations resulted in just getting grappled from behind with no real method of awareness, having them around a corner invisible to me and grappling out of cover which gives me a solid .5 seconds to react (the grapple windup for their character was incredibly short compared to the NPCs), or me having gotten into a fight with a standard enemy and just getting grappled during that.

There doesn't seem to be a way to easily and quickly switch between targets, and attempting to melee out of an action doesn't really work either. Or I go to dodge an enemies attack, and in the process the Antagonist goes to grapple me without me being able to get an attack in to counter in time because I am locked into the dodge.

I appreciate the Souls-like experience of an invader, and I appreciate the diversity a melee system brings to a shooter. But if you want there to be fighting/melee combat, I don't think it's really balanced to have a situation where 2 NPCs and an Antagonist can all charge you and there's no clear way to get out of that situation given the current melee system. If dodge is a method of countering and not simply a roll/escape animation, you're left with nothing you can do in a situation where things are happening too rapidly and in close proximity to be able to determine quickly enough what the biggest threat is.

Also maybe the tutorial should be longer and more varied. Showing a single characters skill and how to walk into cover isn't much. I didn't even fully understand that you have to melee enemies to acquire ammo until I got into a match (unless I totally missed a cue, all I remember was hearing "You'll need their supplies for later" and that being the information you receive suggesting that's your method of picking up ammo).

tl;dr melee needs some work.

[Pedrossis]

I agree on many points but I want to be more gray about it.
Yes the timing of the melee combat is tight but it is challenging in a way.

The issue I have however is that the combat is reduced to button mashing at some point. There is no rhythm or pattern to combat. Ether mash attack to not be grapple or spam dodge to roll away. I'm pretty sure that something could be done, like add a rhythm to it. The batman arkam games did a good job of rewarding player who do not mash and use the rhythm to land punch with crits. I'm not saying that this game needs critical melee hits. It's already superfast. Maybe something else like special refund or lifesteal?
 By the way, the dodge is definitely the least useful move because the recovery after it is way too slow.

Another thing is that the sound cues are really useful in a melee combat situation. You shouldn't play this game with music on. The grapple sound cue (and visual effect) let you react just fast enough to roll around a corner or to turn and punch. And on the opposite side, if you want to grapple, you have to be smart about it. Leaning along corners, jumping out of nowhere. The sound cue of the antagonist respawn is also critical for your survival.

About the 3vs1 situation you described, sorry to say but if you got cornered that way, it's on you. You shouldn't be able to slip away. This game punishes runin' gunbazin' and that's neat. I watched people simply ignore the stealth mechanic completely and that's no bueno.  This game is focused on awareness of your surrounding, attack planning and fast execution. But (and I'm leading to my last point) all of this is hard to feel/understand in the first few hours.

The tutorial is way too light. The gameplay and the gamesense are hard to swallow and the tutorial give nothing to help you with.  The first mission can be an unpleasant experience if you find yourself cued with a good antagonist twice or thrice. I remember that in my first games, I was doing random things, like all rookies do. But the first mission is unforgiving with that (especially at the last part) and the addition of an antagonist in your first/second game ever can turn it into the last game ever. At least for the first mission, you should be protected against antagonists and a second tutorial should be unlocked after, teaching some tips and tricks to play/counter antagonists. And to end it, little conclusion, taterthot style:

tl;dr melee needs tinkering, tutorial needs a complete rework.