[Level9Drow]

Your guide isn't enough. You really need to look at balancing some of the raiders. People complain about him and you bring out a guide? LOL
Obviously if you have an antag that people both complain about and that you HAVE to make a guide just to bare minimum him there's a problem. He is seriously pushing me away from this game. I've had it with this cheap ass character.

If no change occurs I will be inclined to give this game VERY bad reviews on it's truthfully poor balancing and FORCED invading system.

My recommendation in the meantime for players frustrated by Hanz antags, give them their goddamn win. Surrender right at the start. You'll waste less time for the same amount of rewards. Give the dick what he wants so you get hurry up and get the hell out of that match and into the next where, hopefully by the grace of God, there will not be a Hans antag.

What a horrible Raider character. What a horrible horrible experience I have with this terrible antag. So much time and anger. I don't have the words to express the rage I have towards this raider. Hell I'm never queuing for Hanging by a Thread again. That place is an agonizing cesspool of Stigma harvesting. What a toxic and tilting raider. How horrible. And to think it's even worse for brand new players. God, no wonder this game is scaring people away.

Do something about your antag system. I'm not sure if you have to nerf raiders, change the melee system, bring an option to prevent invading (which would be the best), but do something. This shit is ruining the game for me.

Emotional? Sure, I can admit. It's either come to these forums and give my feed back or break my keyboard over a Hans antag.

[Quanrian]

I can only guess the Hans you're referring to are swooping in and air bombing? Your best anti-air at the moment might be Konstantine or someone with a wide enough spread to hit a moving target. However, due to the fact he can both move fast and attack at the same time does provide plenty of challenge for anyone. Personally, I haven't seen anyone play him so well they couldn't be killed. Unfortunately, he's very useful and the cheapest unlock so you will see him used in spades. Currently, he might be seeing a sort of comeback because he wasn't used much at all for a while but lately I am seeing a lot of new players. Also, never surrender on a whim based on what you think might happen because you could just as well trample them and they will quit instead.

[LordDraco3]

I already know this is in direct response to me beating your team as Hans...  But why do you instantly assume that losing means the enemy character is broken? I just use who i'm experienced with and enjoy playing in the right situation instead of someone I don't. Had I found you on Short Fused you would have faced Shae. I was considering Lycus since I started playing him a lot lately, but when I saw everyone looked like experienced players, I went with my main. Had I won with Lycus I'm sure this post would be asking to have his shield and Pepper Pot nerfed because it can instant wound any wardog with proper shot placement.

I'm the second highest antagonist for this week for a reason dude, I'm a rank 18 and not a pushover. And not just because I play Hans, because I do use others depending on the mission and situation.

In your other posts about antags in Hangin' By a Thread, your issue was that they get easy wins by beating 1st time players that are lv0 and don't know how to play. I just fought a Kuzman, Loaht, HIVE and you with your Smokin' Daisy, you were definitely not a noob team and it was not an easy win. So now the strategy is to complain about the character I picked?

It's not like I asked to be queued to fight you, specifically, anyways. I had the mission active as well and was about to be a Raider, but someone else hit cancel and then the game put me in as an antag a few seconds later.

Threatening a bad review because you lost to another player in a game where you will encounter enemy players and still got rewards is pretty silly. 

The best advice I can give you to fight against me, which is absurd that I'd even give such advice (except it's good against any antag) is stick together in pairs and don't all pick the same character type. I almost always died when there were 2 of you to deal with at once, Loaht grabbed me like 10 times at least. But at the end I was able to finally get you in a cluster due to AoE damage on 3 squishy wardogs and 1 slow Kuzman. AoE is literally the gimmick of Hans' guns, and I capitalized on the tight cluster.

[Level9Drow]

I already know this is in direct response to me beating your team as Hans...  But why do you instantly assume that losing means the enemy character is broken? I just use who i'm experienced with and enjoy playing in the right situation instead of someone I don't. Had I found you on Short Fused you would have faced Shae. I was considering Lycus since I started playing him a lot lately, but when I saw everyone looked like experienced players, I went with my main. Had I won with Lycus I'm sure this post would be asking to have his shield and Pepper Pot nerfed because it can instant wound any wardog with proper shot placement.

I'm the second highest antagonist for this week for a reason dude, I'm a rank 18 and not a pushover. And not just because I play Hans, because I do use others depending on the mission and situation.

In your other posts about antags in Hangin' By a Thread, your issue was that they get easy wins by beating 1st time players that are lv0 and don't know how to play. I just fought a Kuzman, Loaht, HIVE and you with your Smokin' Daisy, you were definitely not a noob team and it was not an easy win. So now the strategy is to complain about the character I picked?

It's not like I asked to be queued to fight you, specifically, anyways. I had the mission active as well and was about to be a Raider, but someone else hit cancel and then the game put me in as an antag a few seconds later.

Threatening a bad review because you lost to another player in a game where you will encounter enemy players and still got rewards is pretty silly. 

The best advice I can give you to fight against me, which is absurd that I'd even give such advice (except it's good against any antag) is stick together in pairs and don't all pick the same character type. I almost always died when there were 2 of you to deal with at once, Loaht grabbed me like 10 times at least. But at the end I was able to finally get you in a cluster due to AoE damage on 3 squishy wardogs and 1 slow Kuzman. AoE is literally the gimmick of Hans' guns, and I capitalized on the tight cluster.

Wrong, the best advice is to do when dealing with a broken part of a game, like Hans,  is just to avoid it. Give the antag Hans his stigma, he's gonna' take it anyways, give him what he came here for, by surrendering and then move on as fast as possible to enjoying the game again. I didn't ask to be invaded, I see no reason to dignify the player with my attention. It's a waste of my time and patience to do otherwise. In the future I will be choosing actions that will best accomplish wasting as little time possible and moving on the the next game when invaded and forced against this raider. I made the mistake in humoring you in the conflict, my mistake, the system favored you and I trusted the developers and the system and it was wrong. This will NEVER happen again.

The outcome of that unpleasant, horrible confrontation and waste of time was a forgone conclusion due to the mechanics of a raider. Until we have a raider who can grapple enemies out of air, or has a Roadhog, Blitzkrank, and Stiches like grappling hook then Hanz will always be a problem.

Don't act innocent about the issue either. The fact that they HAD TO MAKE A GUIDE about this raider and how to fight him is indicative of his broken design. If you do not believe this then where are all the guides created by the developers on how to counter Alicia, Iune, Laoht, etc...? There aren't any. This should tell you something. Remember technical skill in a videogame =/= mastery in logic deducing skill. And I think I can deduce from the fact that the developers had to "band-aid" the Hanz issue with a silly post teaching how to survive him is ample proof of their failure in design and balance concerning this raider. If you disagree with this you are being disingenuous and self interested, no other way around it.

What I'll end this response with is a plee to the developers to either nerf the raider Hans, or give us the option to turn off "invasions" so we can play the game in peace and avoid the raider balance issued that are failing to be addressed. Get weapons out of being locked behind Antag rank and you got a great game where people of different stripes can enjoy. Trolls and those who like ruining fun for others have their side they can play, and others who just want to do epic missions and have fun with others can do so without worrying about horrible experiences like Hanz. Both parties get what they want, I'm not used for amusement of others and those who like competition can tear each other apart.

[LordDraco3]

Wrong, the best advice is to do when dealing with a broken part of a game, like Hans,  is just to avoid it.

Except Hans isn't broken. You ever played him, like, at all? He's not some instant godlike character. I still lose sometimes when I play him, or have a hard win (which this wasn't an easy one). The better players will prevail.

the system favored you

Or I just played better than you in that game.

This will NEVER happen again.

What I'm hearing is "from now on whenever I see any antagonist I will just try to surrender or purposely die to lose the game faster or disconnect, all options that will negatively hurt the other 3 players in my team"

Until we have a raider who can grapple enemies out of air

Except he can already be grabbed from the air. Try playing Hans to understand what you're even talking about before assuming things.
Also can't jetpack out of CQC, it has a delay. I do my best to shoot and wound as much as possible before going CQC, as any smart player should do with any other player/elite.

The fact that they HAD TO MAKE A GUIDE about this raider and how to fight him is indicative of his broken design.

You mean the guide that one PLAYER made? Player advice is not indicative of anything. I can make a guide about how to properly shoot as Harec, or how to manage beast mode with Loaht. Player tips don't indicate any broken mechanics simply by their virtue of existing.

If you disagree with this you are being disingenuous and self interested, no other way around it.

Whining to the devs with an ultimatum to change character mechanics because you lost a game to a better player is childish. Like when I play Soul Calibur as Astaroth and online players whine about grabs, when I'm using *the* grab-based character. I have only one piece of advice to fix your issue

[Level9Drow]

I've offered the solutions that could fix the problem. You obviously have an adversarial view point and so is not worth considering, you are, quite simply, the enemy and the obstacle to any progress in my values and goals, nothing more.

The only thing that can be said in light of your antagonistic response is, "Do what though wilt." and so shall I. Nothing more need be said.

[LordDraco3]

"the enemy to your values and goals?" What are you even on about? You're going to fight more antagonists. They may be me, they may not be, it's luck of the draw. We may be matched as raiders together, we have been before (oh and we lost last time that happened, I recall...).

You are carrying some kind of unholy vendetta just because I beat you after being *randomly* matched against your team, with no possible way to control that matchmaking. Get over it, and learn to be a team player in a team-based co-op game..

[Level9Drow]

Do what though wilts, and so will I.

[jmv36]

So reading through this post I realized...hey I was Loaht in the mission . With that said, I disagree that Hans is overpowered or broken. It’s not like we never took him out, we as a team were not consistent on Hans whereabouts to take him out. Like for instance checking the respawn timer so we can prepare for him and bait him out. Basically it’s kinda like what we were doing but he beat us to the punch first, literally. Our Kuzman could of been a spotter and initiated the damage first just as an example.
We needed more organization to fully win the match. We didn’t do that bad actually, we made it to the final stage of the map, although I didn’t make it during the elevator ride...lol

[LordDraco3]

Yeah man, you grabbed me as Loaht at *least* 10 times. I knew how to counter beast mode though since I played him a lot for a while, still killed me I think once or twice as a beast.

Kuzman should have been on me more, he seemed to be more occupied with the bots though. 5th council tend to be the hardest ones to deal with as Hans.

[jmv36]

Yeah completely agree the fifth council is a good counter pick. In general I think Kuzman is a great pick for missions especially when using the light horizons gun to heal teammates.

[This_Is_Howser]

Hey guys, Hive here.
I just want to throw my two cents in for thought here.
I'll be the first to admit I know my limitations when gaming and I know when I screw up. So I try to play with my faults in mind with character selection, play style, etc.
So obviously every raider has pros and cons and some have stronger benefits to certain missions, absolutely. Personally, I do think Hans and Kuzman are the 2 strongest characters in the game, but I'm not sure I'd say overpowered. You can definitely take them both down with the right combination of raiders and proper teamwork.
I'll admit, I'm still learning Hive, and getting caught against an Ant when learning a character is always a hard run, but I also think Hive is a less than optimal choice against a Hans due to her ark shot vs his quickness, so I was kind of behind the 8 ball by my own fault.
This said, Hans, you are definitely a skilled player, no doubt, and I was no match for you that mission. Didn't help that I tried to grapple you a couple times and got immediately diverted to the nearest AI, but hey, timing is everything, right?
For our own team, our Kuzman was def focused on the wrong element which did not help. Kuzman can already hit from a real good distance, but against Mr. Fly (Hans), a steady stream attack like Kuzman from a distance could have made a huge difference in leveling the playing field.
Sure, the ending was poor, we very quickly got ourselves into a corner we couldn't get out of, but it wasn't because Hans is cheap or OP. He played the game and capitalized on our mistakes. Our team didn't have the right coordination to take down the skilled antag. Simple as that.
Yes Hans is strong and a little harder to take down with his quick mobility, but Loaht went after him a good amount with some successes, Alicia and I teamed a couple times and got a few kills, we had our moments before everything really went down hill. It's all timing and teamwork and we did not have either in that match.
May we square off or rally together again sometime, I look forward to the challenge.

[Quanrian]

There's only two solid ways I see to fight an Antagonist. First option, you push hard on objectives and reduce your mission time. If you're in the mission for less time this is better for all Raiders because it's less time for the Antagonist to get kills and they have to make their spawns count. In my humble opinion, this is the better route and why I have a really hard time against Veterans. Second option, stop and clear at a pace you're comfortable with and play in a more defensive manner. While you wont get a good clear time this way you'll stand a better chance against a really effective Antagonist of even high difficulty AI if you turtle up. Third option, is obviously just to find a comfortable middle ground between railing the mission and playing defensively. I do hope you all continue to enjoy the game in your own way!

[John_013]

1. You need to correctly type the command using the minuses and pluses of the raiders.
2. You need to impose your game, and not play as the antagonist wants. Do not run after him when you want to get revenge, most likely just get another 1 kill
3. Hans is strong only in the air, but no one prevents him from killing in flight, the same lick with a pepper can kill him with one shot
4. Do not turn on single-player mode if you are not sure of your abilities.

If you will perform at least half of what I wrote then it will greatly simplify the game with Hans as an antagonist

[LordDraco3]

Wow, didn't expect 2 others from that game to join the convo. Thanks for the compliments, as I stated before, it was not an easy win from my perspective! I actually thought I was gonna lose when I just saw your names, ranks, and character choices since it was a solid pick to handle those mission objectives. I played as hard as I could using my experience but still died a lot.

And Howser, yes I saw you guys accidentally strike or grab towards AI when I was nearby at times, can't say I actually planned that completely, but fighting near AI definitely helps antags like having a teammate. It is very frustrating when the melee tracking sends you flying at the wrong enemy, but I'm not sure if there's a good suggestion to fix that.