Author Topic: This new level stats GOT TO GO!!!!  (Read 6374 times)

Level9Drow

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This new level stats GOT TO GO!!!!
on: April 10, 2018, 07:15:07 AM
I was just in a game where the highest level player was 42, and we were up against an antag at level fucking 66. What business does a level 66 player have fighting level 30's to 40's? My gun with harec at FULL FUCKING CHARGE for times FOUR damage with an extra 13% for hero killer did one third of her health as Ginebra. We could not do ANYTHING to her. Do you hear me? NOOOTHING!!!!!!

Is this what you want? Is this intentional? Why would you think this is ok? Why would you think this is fun at ALL? Who the fuck thinks this is fun?

After we inevitably had to surrender to save wasted time I thought, "Well, our level difference should at least reward us generously. I mean, this is what Mercurysteam said would happen." And you know what was the slap in the fucking face they did to us? The spit in the eye? We got little over a thousand gold and faction. THIS is the "BIG REWARD" Mercurysteam said would occur with level disparity. It was a lie. They lied to us saying it would be worth it to accept this new system and that we would be compensated for level disparity. I am telling you all now you will NOT BE COMPENSATED for level disparities. The developers are literally sending you in to be slaughtered and to give some FUCKING ASS HOLE a good time.

This game needs to remove the level stats. I didn't lose to her because she was better. I got killing shots on her so many times that in a FAIR game she would have been dead. I was the better player and STILL lost. How is this a good thing?

GIVE US THE OPTION TO AVOID ANTAGONISTS ONLINE!! Can we play the game in piece?

That fight was a complete waste of my time, complete waste of my patients, and a complete waste of my trust in the system. I can't keep doing this shit. This is ruining the game for me. I just want to have fun and play a goddamn level without some fucking prick with an ego and something to prove coming in ruining life for everyone else bis dad beats him.

Mercurysteam, you have to change this. People love your game but THIS RIGHT HERE is going to kill it. It's going to kill your game. And if you don't change it this SHOULD kill your game. Because this is not a very nice thing to do to your players, your customers.

As a result from this experience I have now decided that every game I go into where the antagonist out level us I will spam surrender and suicide. This is the quickest way out of the match. Why? Because I know that there will be no compensation for the level disparity, that's a lie, and that the more time spent amusing the sociopath on the other side is more loss of gold, faction and blueprints I could be getting in another game. It's simple pragmatism. And if I see that prick in my group, because his name is burnt into my mind, I am throwing just to get revenge on what he did to me. Because he owes me now.

You've now created a toxic player. Way to go guys.

THIS isn't fair, THIS isn't fun.

TheBrentWoody

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Re: This new level stats GOT TO GO!!!!
Reply #1 on: April 10, 2018, 09:50:26 AM
You were shooting her in the arm. No way a level 60 was only taking 33 damage anywhere else. Aim better. I'm level 90. A mortis will head shot anyone any time. 400 damage he could take 75% less damage and you one shot him.

TheBrentWoody

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Re: This new level stats GOT TO GO!!!!
Reply #2 on: April 10, 2018, 09:55:04 AM
I agree the stats should be fixed. Just wanted to clarify there is no way the mortis wasn't killing a Ginebra with a headshot even base

Black_Adder_

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Re: This new level stats GOT TO GO!!!!
Reply #3 on: April 10, 2018, 09:59:06 AM
I was in the second protector mission yesterday where it seemed that 2 of my teammates didn't even know that dodging evades strikes and got pummeled by antagonist literally as soon as they spawned. We lost A LOT of lives but we actually won the match because nobody gave up and the new guys learned all the stuff eventually. We got rating of 6 or something in the end and the match was very long and tiring but it was the best experience I have had for months in this game. The antagonist was level 40 something, I am level 50, another teammate level 30 and two new players below level 10. To have new players get together, literally learn their stuff in the process of getting their faces melted by AI, turrets and antagonist and beat the higher level antagonist with their crap weapons on mission that even lot of "experienced" players tend to fail even without antagonist very often - that just feels awesome.
All the point of my rant is that - sure, maybe you'll get no antagonist mode eventually with no effort needed and less rewards, but you'll be stuck with players that will never get better because they are fine with easy mode. I have learned everything I know about how to properly play this game from antagonists that kicked my ass and I better lose to good player rather than get bored to death playing easy mode missions with clueless people. And I have the most respect to people who kick my ass as antagonists and to people like those 2 new guys who kept fighting in what seemed to be already lost match and turned it all around in the end.

LordDraco3

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Re: This new level stats GOT TO GO!!!!
Reply #4 on: April 10, 2018, 10:54:32 AM
Yup.... seeing newbie players learn through adversity is fantastic. I recorded a match like that on my youtube where 2 of my teammates had never played a single game yet, and we had a Lv16 antagonist (old lv 16, not new lv16). They played so well I couldn't believe they never played before.

A 10-20 level difference isn't that much, honestly. As antag I fight a lot of mixed level groups, some higher, some lower. I don't simply steamroll the lower ones and get ganked by the higher ones, in my recent plays as Hive it can often be the lower levels that kill me the most, it just depends on the character pics. You also don't know that Ginebra's build, she may have brought an armor faction card, which 5th Council have a few options of, or may have missed (Brent plays a lot of Harec, I'd trust his judgement on headshots).

I agree that rewards, in general, need to be enhanced, and some kind of tangible bonus for having tough fights. Because yeah, the current rewards are pretty crummy and I'm having trouble even keeping up with faction points or gold since the update. Rolling cards has some nice luck it seems (despite being able to roll all 4 the same card, which I have done...), but it sucks so many points now. And even though I have every character already, blueprints are draining my gold to levels below when the update happened.

Level9Drow

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Re: This new level stats GOT TO GO!!!!
Reply #5 on: April 10, 2018, 07:09:53 PM
Oh I didn't do head shots, it was too difficult because I was hanging on the dome on the Aneska fight and it was shaking SO much. But multiple body shots at full charge were doing 3rd health. this is because the prick was level 66 and the highest person was level 40 I think. That's TWENTY TWO levels on us, at least, not counting the players lower than that. Not 10, but 22. Not "just a few levels" but 22. So please, stop the downplaying, it's dishonest. I was there, I can attest to full charge body shots doing a third AND head shots merely wounding her.

The important thing is that this isn't a fair system, at all. It's non-rewarding, like the developers said it would be, we weren't compensated for the disparity in any way. And I've learned I clearly cannot trust the system at all.

Being forced to have to interact with antagonists is one thing, but then being forced to interact with ones that out-level you by 22 levels is a whole new level of spit in the eye. It needs to change. They need to make the stats only relevant to AI, but there should be no scaleable stats in relation to PvP. It should be a static system when PVP is involved, this is the fairest way to have PvP, like it was before the patch.

BeertheBrad

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Re: This new level stats GOT TO GO!!!!
Reply #6 on: April 10, 2018, 07:24:36 PM
I laughed pretty hard at this:
"prick with an ego and something to prove coming in ruining life for everyone else bis dad beats him"

Its the same on the Antag side amigo. Play against a PC Guild (Talking to you [TH]  :P) and getting a Euro Server(Ping ~300). It sucks, but you go at it and try. I feel good that I wipe them at least once, you are going to have to earn that win from me. I don't carry a loss any further than my next game.


Level9Drow

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Re: This new level stats GOT TO GO!!!!
Reply #7 on: April 10, 2018, 07:36:01 PM
I'm not making a one sided argument, BeerTheBrad. I'm saying that no match up between PvP should have this disparity on either side. Raiders shouldn't be outleved by an antag by 20+ level, but neither should raiders outlevel an antag by that amount. It isn't ANY BETTER for an antag to get steamrolled when he is 22 levels below the lowest raider, or even just a few.

The point is, this isn't true fair PvP if levels can influence passive stats that can alter the course of an engagement.

And the meme doesn't apply to me, I'm too old and tired to fall under the snowflake millennial trope. I'm also not left leaning enough to fall under your meme either.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 07:48:15 PM by Level9Drow »

BeertheBrad

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Re: This new level stats GOT TO GO!!!!
Reply #8 on: April 10, 2018, 07:57:14 PM
No, I just thought it was a funny meme. You live to fight another day... I was lazy and didn't make one myself(copy/pasta) No sissyfied implication.

I agree it is unbalanced. I read a suggestion that would pull the Antag down to the highest Raider or vice versa.

LordDraco3

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Re: This new level stats GOT TO GO!!!!
Reply #9 on: April 10, 2018, 10:04:45 PM
Downplaying?

22 levels different... I've fought Sephiroth the last few days, who was the top ranked, most stigma'd Antagonist on PC, when he was both Antagonist and Raider, and he was that much higher than me in levels. I still win even as Hive, despite my swarm damage dropping to 25 dmg ticks. Levels do not win fights alone and can always be overcome. I didn't act any different fighting a Level 70+ Aneska than I did fighting the level 3 Konstantin, the 70+ just took another couple of hits.

Some people are already nearing level 100 and it has been less than a week since the update. 20 levels will not be a "huge level disparity" a week or even a month from now. Saying that people should be completely 100% blocked from playing against each other because the level difference is too high is awful, that would totally block any play as it already stands. It already takes me 10-15 minutes to join an antagonist match thanks to the number of players, and the level/MMR of who is on.

It's like every time an antagonist beats you we get a new thread of demands.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 10:06:37 PM by LordDraco3 »

LordDraco3

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Re: This new level stats GOT TO GO!!!!
Reply #10 on: April 10, 2018, 10:12:37 PM
And this time you are even pointing out your own lack of skill to land headshots as Harec, when Harec has ALWAYS needed headshots to deal good damage. I'll be the first to admit that I couldn't land those either, but that's why I don't play Harec.

The reason for your complaint boils down to being mad that Harec can't kill a 5th council with body shots. You have found a scapegoat to blame, and here we are, the "Hans OP plz nerf" thread 2.0.

Level9Drow

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Re: This new level stats GOT TO GO!!!!
Reply #11 on: April 10, 2018, 10:21:25 PM
Right, they should take the hint. Don't force PvEers with PvPers. This is a bad idea. And if you have to do it don't expect happy people.

I won't apologize for my posts or my views. You can only speak for yourself, because you actually LIKE this kind of stuff. You sound like a Social Dawinist.

I also won't apologize for my actions in response to these horrible experiences. I already payed that antag back in a game where we were both on the same team, we're even now. Consider it a form of 4th dimensional PvP, I WON. I lay the blame at the feet of the designers.

We use what power we can to invoke change. There will always be those who are barriers in your way.

EDIT: You invoke the Hans thread, but you forget that since then they nerfed him. This means that thread was VALID. If it wasn't they wouldn't have nerfed him. I can only hope they can adjust the system as a result of these level disparities.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 10:30:03 PM by Level9Drow »

LordDraco3

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Re: This new level stats GOT TO GO!!!!
Reply #12 on: April 10, 2018, 10:46:26 PM
Quote
I already payed that antag back in a game where we were both on the same team, we're even now.

So I'm guessing you let a teammate die when you were co-opping, thus lowering your own team's score and reward, because you were still salty? Yeah.... you really showed him...    ::)

Hans has gotten cards to balance his terrible nerf, at least. I'm loving his "Finishers restore jetpack" card, pairs great with Cold Blood.
You also need to keep in mind that nerfing a character affects them as a raider. So.... congrats on feeling validated, I guess?  Even though we ALL complain about stupid PvE difficulty issues, and one more character was made weaker?   ???

Level9Drow

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Re: This new level stats GOT TO GO!!!!
Reply #13 on: April 10, 2018, 11:42:01 PM
Quote
I already payed that antag back in a game where we were both on the same team, we're even now.

So I'm guessing you let a teammate die when you were co-opping, thus lowering your own team's score and reward, because you were still salty? Yeah.... you really showed him...    ::)

Hans has gotten cards to balance his terrible nerf, at least. I'm loving his "Finishers restore jetpack" card, pairs great with Cold Blood.
You also need to keep in mind that nerfing a character affects them as a raider. So.... congrats on feeling validated, I guess?  Even though we ALL complain about stupid PvE difficulty issues, and one more character was made weaker?   ???

I had a lot of things going through my head about how to respond to this. But I had to think a while before doing so. I had to think of who I was upset with and the reasons I was upset and to be careful not to transfer that to a person who doesn't deserve it. You are obviously not the reason things are bad. I detract my statement about Social Darwinist, it was uncalled for and misdirected, you didn't deserve that, I'm sorry.

So, I'll say this. I originally was going to delete the post when I first made it, because I thought it was too "extreme", but I felt that I should leave it since it captures honestly a reoccurring situation happening with PvEers. I don't apologize for being tilted, anger is a legitimate emotional response to a perceived injustice or wrongful situations.

Now, 3 days later, instead of arguing at forum posters I usually have a laugh with I'll try and turn this post to what could be done to improve the situation.

I think BeerTheBrad brought up a really good solution of allowing raiders to opt to have priority when the system matches for antagonists. This way this wouldn't reduce the games an antag can get into, but it would "funnel" them towards players who LIKE PvP and/or players who are interested in the extra rewards for playing against antag. This wouldn't completely remove the chances for PvEers, players who didn't choose to be prioritized, to get an antag, it would just choose available players who opted in over them. They would only get an antagonists if the system ran out of players who opted in.

The second issue is level disparity power. You may not think this is a big deal, but this will affect new players in a very negative way (unless BeerTheBrad's suggestion was a reality). I would say they should keep level statistics, that increase per level, but that only effect damage, armor and resistance verses AI enemies. But there should be no statistics in relation to other players, this is rule number one in PvP. This is the fairest way to insure that only skill and strategy is put into the equation. This way the stats are still relevant when facing AI, but won't ruin PvP.

The only thing I feel would be a problem with this is that the antagonists gets no benefit form this. So, a new form of stats could happen, like empowering the AI around you to be stronger. A made up example would be a stat like "Rally" which would raise the damage of surrounding mooks within 30 as you leveled up, or "Boss" which would raise the health of elites on the map. I don't know. But this way the Antagonists would be a fair fight always while still getting use of their stats against Raiders. These rules would also apply for weapons. "Hero Killer" should only be for elites, not players. Other stats shouldn't translate so harshly to PvP on the weapon wither.

But we can't keep it the way it is now. And I don't expect the developers to make changes over night. I'll just hold by breath, with hope, while playing the game until next update. But I see a lot of PvEers AFK through the game as Antagonists, people I play with have told me this is what they do so they can get antag affinity. I haven't played Antag in the new patch yet, I'm waiting for more levels and gold, but when I do, I fear this is the route I will take. But instead of criticizing the players who do this we should instead ask why they're doing it.