[TheBrentWoody]

...You say we're here to troll.  But I enjoy PvP because it is inherently more challenging than bots in a manageable way.  For instance, the game progresses difficulty for you, but at a certain point there are just too many bodies that need too much damage done to them by the team to effectively complete your missions (this may be a hypothetical difficulty if you can handle 100% difficult missions) but we  can all attest that at some point we'd begin losing because of volume of damage the mooks can dump out.

The PvPer ( like myself) enjoys something that with nothing other than strategy can become more difficult.  I enjoy the puzzle of it, just like you, and if you've played antag enough at all, you'll notice that other players are also predictable.   The decision is what to make your priority.  And then when you see the win screen, you'll know you made okay decisions   Hah. 

I'm not here to troll people.  I'm here to win.  Just like you.  I'm here to enjoy the challenge. 

I get ragey if I -know- that I'm losing because someone SHOULD be able to handle a particular task, and are willfully neglecting/failing at it. 

I do not get ragey if I lose and I should have lost.  That's just me, though.

[LordDraco3]

And PvPers like this, it's in their nature to troll others, they get off on it, it's why they PvP.

Only when I get matched against you, buddy

You can stop repeating the "pvpers are evil assholes who suck and I hate them" philosophy.

[Level9Drow]

It's obviously not all of them. It can't be, because the situation is more nuances. You have a design which forces even PvEers to have to play antagonist. so I don't believe all people playing Antagonists are, in fact, people who enjoy causing misery to others. I realize many people are there because they HAVE to be. And, to be honest, I don't believe LordDraco is interested in causing misery or trolling ("unless it's me"), but there are people who ONLY play antag who've stated they don't care if the raiders are noobs, they, in fact, like this. This is a universally understood attitude in gaming in general, PvPers generally are micro-sociopaths. Sure, you get you're "honorable" PvPers who want a fair fight, but this is the exception not the rule.

Also I'd like to state the horrible situation from the other side. We had an antagonist the other day that was level 6. Our group was all 50+. We won, but it was horrible, why is he fighting us? He kept trying but he just didn't do enough damage to us, and we would WASTE him with firepower in moments. It was an unpleasant feeling when we won, and let's face it, we were going to win no matter what. For the reasons stated above I think PvP HAS to be an optional thing, or at least more well mitigated with barriers and filters that prevent this sort of thing.

[TheBrentWoody]

Well, I think you just need to look at it differently. If you get a low level antagonist. They chose to be an antagonist, so, no mercy. It means they got their MMR in your range somehow, so, lower in it for them if helpful

[Level9Drow]

Or worse, he was forced to be there because he needs affinity for weapons and cards. He may not even be a PvPer at heart. I think this is probable because we've run with this guy before prior to the patch. I mean, sure, if he loves PvP and wants to be there, yea, "show no mercy" I guess. But it would be so much worse if he was a PvEer who was forced to be there. Which brings into questions why they are forcing us there in the first place. and at huge disadvantages.

[TheBrentWoody]

Currently, that's just how it is.  Everyone playing Antagonist wants to be there. They'd rather fight you and get a gun, than not fight you and get a gun.  Ta da.  Beat them.

[Level9Drow]

Currently, that's just how it is.  Everyone playing Antagonist wants to be there. They'd rather fight you and get a gun, than not fight you and get a gun.  Ta da.  Beat them.

That is true. You don't have to spawn as antag at all to get XP or a chance to get a blueprint. I can attest to this. Uras Berit gave me credit for 12 kills the AI got, and I got blueprints because I queued with a weapon with a good amount of Treasure Hunter. 2 or 3 times of this and you get your affinity. And it only takes 30 minutes total because they clear the map quick!. It's an incredibly efficient means of gaining affinity and blueprints.

I can't complain if I'm not there. And I didn't. At least they allow us to do this to gain affinity. And as long as this is a thing I guess there isn't really any problem being "forced", you are right.

[TheBrentWoody]

Pro Tip: Buy a 1.5 xp boost (12k) before you go in and one match gets you antag affinity pre level 100. 

After level 100 do the same with 40% boost cards.

[Black_Adder_]

I am a very lazy person and if a game has both PvP and PvE then I usually avoid PvP completely - just because I'm too lazy to make different loadouts for PvP and PvE. Because of this I've played all Souls games in phantom form, I never tried PvP in FF XIV and basically the general idea is - just one mode.
In RoTB I have no problems with antagonist settings because the game doesn't force me to have different loadouts. All my characters have just one loadout that works perfectly in both PvE and PvP and both modes take same amount of effort. That is why I seriously don't understand the many complaints about antagonists. They make this game more fun and with Hades update it's now so easy to get exp for them even for those who absolutely don't like them. Just 1-2 games and you have your antagonist affinity.

[Level9Drow]

I am a very lazy person and if a game has both PvP and PvE then I usually avoid PvP completely - just because I'm too lazy to make different loadouts for PvP and PvE. Because of this I've played all Souls games in phantom form, I never tried PvP in FF XIV and basically the general idea is - just one mode.
In RoTB I have no problems with antagonist settings because the game doesn't force me to have different loadouts. All my characters have just one loadout that works perfectly in both PvE and PvP and both modes take same amount of effort. That is why I seriously don't understand the many complaints about antagonists. They make this game more fun and with Hades update it's now so easy to get exp for them even for those who absolutely don't like them. Just 1-2 games and you have your antagonist affinity.

You are right, 1 to 2 games. You don't even have to spawn, as I've said before. you get XP and Blueprints for watching them at different angles and admiring the level design, textures and set that you would normally never be able to do if you were taking part. Again, it's quicker than fighting the raiders, because if you fight them the game takes longer, and with the reduced AI minions they clean up the level really fast. So if you are looking to change your affinity fast and you don't like PvP this is the most efficient and quickest way to do it.

The group I normally run with was in a mission as well and they got an antag that didn't spawn either. They said they were relieved because it was a boss fight, not sure which one.

But it's silly isn't it? This is what you get when you force PvEers to need Antag Affinity and force them to PvP, unspawned antagonist who just change spawn angles until the fight is over. I'm sure this will be patched out soon, because MSE wants to force it, but then we'll just afk and Aleph feed the Raiders, which, ironically, will make the match EVEN QUICKER.

But do PvPers want this? Do they want a PvEer antag who isn't there? And if not, what would fix this issue of AFK antagonist? Because it's a very lucrative technique so I don't see it stopping. And why would YOU as a PVPer want to FORCE a PvEer to fight you? Because they don't really want to be there. "Just take my Aleph and finish the damn mission already, I got to build a weapon that will only allow me to build it with Antag affinity, chop chop!."

[Shoggoth_Poot]

Hi. Glad to be here. My name is Shuggoth_Poot and I love being an Antagonist. I apologize to the community. I'm the reason you fail missions and get crummy rewards. I'm sorry. I'd stop if I could, but I can't. I like being an Antagonist too much. It's like, when Uras-Behrit?...Emoji-Berra?...when he taunts the Raiders before the mission launches - I get this rush. It's like running from the police on a mixture of bath salts while listening to Motor Head on a blue-tooth headset made out of faulty wires that shocks your friggin brain every time Lemmy grunts like he gargled broken glass for breakfast
...but I digress.
I've played against Antagonists too - and lost. This opened my eyes to the pain I was causing others, and I realized what I'm doing when I Antagonized others. But I still don't wanna quit. I can't. It's too good. Like when you run outside butt-naked in a thunderstorm with...nevermind. POINT IS...I would like to give some suggestions to help alleviate the pain I'm causing others, because I lack the self-control to quit you, Emoji-Barrel.

Firstly (hahaha firstly) - I think players should be given the option of joining a mission in which the Antagonist can or cannot join. Obviously, missions that have Antagonists should be rewarded significantly more for being completed successfully. That is not to say that those who opt out of playing against an Antagonist should be punished. If you've ever played an extremely long dog-fight of a mission against an Antagonist, only to lose at the very friggin end when victory was so friggin close you could friggin taste its sweaty victory...stuff. Yeah, it's one heck of a devastating defeat. Higher risk (PvP), higher reward. Lower risk (PvE), lower reward. And I don't think it's enough that the reward be higher if you get invaded. Some people, no amount of reward will make them enjoy the experience of an Antagonist. In the end, they're so stressed and irritated, etc. that they would say you can take your BluePrint (that roll b.s. is...well, b.s. but we'll talk about that somewhere else) and shove it up your Aleph Injector.

Secondly - Well, I've lost track of my thoughts. Anyone else wanna chime in?

[LordDraco3]

Hah, good first post.

[Level9Drow]

Cool man, thanks!

I'm glad you're enjoying yourself, honestly, and in the same breath vying for more options. It would attract a whole lot more players, I know it.

[Quanrian]

I put on music and just phase out and try to have fun given I am the last person who should be playing Antagonist. Truthfully, I tend to get upset on either end of the equation but there are simply less factors from my viewpoint when playing as an Antagonist. However, it depends on how my matches trend too. For instance, if I get a bunch of vets that will absolutely destroy me if I don't do my best it's going to be hard to 'tone it down' for a newer group.

The best 'you' can do given that Antagonist has been waiting (sometimes an artificially increased amount of time... *grumbles*) is give it 'your' best so the lot of you are hopefully learning a few new tricks. You mentioned admiring the level but you should also be paying deep attention to how other players achieve their goals. Therefore, it's equally important if not more so when you go back to playing as a Raider to pay attention to what your foes are up to from your unique perspective.