[Power Penguin]

Have fun getting one shotted when playing antag.

[LordDraco3]

Harec, Doldren, and Shae (and every other character with their grab) can all 1-shot as well? I don't understand the arguments against one-shots when there are so many of them, unless you want them all removed completely.

[Power Penguin]

Harec, Doldren, and Shae (and every other character with their grab) can all 1-shot as well? I don't understand the arguments against one-shots when there are so many of them, unless you want them all removed completely.

Well that's kinda their role in the game but they offset this by having low hp values. Also their weapons are not super effective at close range. Giny has great health, great mobility and a 1 shot weapon that she can use at close or long range if you don't call that borked I don't know what is.

[Level9Drow]

I was about to say what you said. Also you have to be close to grab and risk a lot more than shooting with the Schleuder. I think it's a bit too powerful to. Herec, Shae and Doldren also have stipulations on their weapons that prevent them from spamming (well the high damage ones, anyways), like one shot per reload with Harec, slow "reload" letting the pressure out with Shae which she can't do ANYTHING but walk while she does this, and it lasts a bit of time, and finally Doldren has to wait a moment for his gun to fire max damage and then only the first shot keeps his stress down.

I don't think one shots are the problem Draco, I think it's how EASY they may or may not be, the sacrifice a character has to make to do them and the relative weakness of that hero to justify the one shot. Ginebra, has no weaknesses with the Schleuder. At 100 health, resistant to gunfire damage, and the ability to go 0 to 60 in a split second, she is one of the best, if not THE best, character in the game.

EDIT: Also consider her other two weapons which ar balanced relative to her Health, resistance and mobility well. Default does crab damage but has push and does additional damage if they colide with other stuff. And Javalin does HORRIBLE damage up close and only "decent" damage afar, but only at max tension. With Shleuder you just have to shoot the ground in front of your target.

[LordDraco3]

While I agree that Ginebra is a character that should be nerfed since she can do pretty much everything measurable, I would not call the Schleuder particularly easy to 1-shot with. It requires bouncing, you can't just shoot straight on and do much damage. I have not yet gotten that good with the weapon myself, it has potential for high damage but still takes skill (or luck) to land those bounce shots.

[Power Penguin]

I was about to say what you said. Also you have to be close to grab and risk a lot more than shooting with the Schleuder. I think it's a bit too powerful to. Herec, Shae and Doldren also have stipulations on their weapons that prevent them from spamming (well the high damage ones, anyways), like one shot per reload with Harec, slow "reload" letting the pressure out with Shae which she can't do ANYTHING but walk while she does this, and it lasts a bit of time, and finally Doldren has to wait a moment for his gun to fire max damage and then only the first shot keeps his stress down.

I don't think one shots are the problem Draco, I think it's how EASY they may or may not be, the sacrifice a character has to make to do them and the relative weakness of that hero to justify the one shot. Ginebra, has no weaknesses with the Schleuder. At 100 health, resistant to gunfire damage, and the ability to go 0 to 60 in a split second, she is one of the best, if not THE best, character in the game.

EDIT: Also consider her other two weapons which ar balanced relative to her Health, resistance and mobility well. Default does crab damage but has push and does additional damage if they colide with other stuff. And Javalin does HORRIBLE damage up close and only "decent" damage afar, but only at max tension. With Shleuder you just have to shoot the ground in front of your target.

Don't forget that the projectiles are also slower for these weapons.

[Power Penguin]

While I agree that Ginebra is a character that should be nerfed since she can do pretty much everything measurable, I would not call the Schleuder particularly easy to 1-shot with. It requires bouncing, you can't just shoot straight on and do much damage. I have not yet gotten that good with the weapon myself, it has potential for high damage but still takes skill (or luck) to land those bounce shots.

It really isn't that hard to use just aim at their feet and do SUPER DAMAGE !!!!!!!

[Level9Drow]

While I agree that Ginebra is a character that should be nerfed since she can do pretty much everything measurable, I would not call the Schleuder particularly easy to 1-shot with. It requires bouncing, you can't just shoot straight on and do much damage. I have not yet gotten that good with the weapon myself, it has potential for high damage but still takes skill (or luck) to land those bounce shots.

The weapon literally tells you when to shoot, it goes red and you can basically one shot people from around the corner this way. Other heroes with "bounce" weapons have to guess. The other weapons are crossbows as well so the aim goes slightly off each time you fire, the Schleuder is not a crossbow, it some kind of gun so it's always straight and doesn't go off target after you fire. The other two are slower and have an arc whee they fall off, Schleuder is straight.

[Power Penguin]

Super space tennis ball launcher.

[LordDraco3]

Upgraded, a single bounce gets me sub-200 damage, somewhere in the upper 100's. Shooting at feet still requires positioning on both the shooter and the target.

It is a strong weapon, but when compared to other high damage weapons, it sounds like you guys take issue with the rest of Ginebra's kit. Which I can agree with. But then we come back to weapon nerfing, after already admitting all of the other strengths she has. Jetpack was a mobility perk that got nerfed, but cat form remains infinite. If she had more trouble positioning herself at-will, perhaps it would not be as effective. It gets neutered against an opponent on the high ground, you can't make that easy foot shot in such a position.

[Level9Drow]

Upgraded, a single bounce gets me sub-200 damage, somewhere in the upper 100's. Shooting at feet still requires positioning on both the shooter and the target.

It is a strong weapon, but when compared to other high damage weapons, it sounds like you guys take issue with the rest of Ginebra's kit. Which I can agree with. But then we come back to weapon nerfing, after already admitting all of the other strengths she has. Jetpack was a mobility perk that got nerfed, but cat form remains infinite. If she had more trouble positioning herself at-will, perhaps it would not be as effective. It gets neutered against an opponent on the high ground, you can't make that easy foot shot in such a position.

There's nothing wrong with the gun, by itself. You can have a gun that does 1,000 damage AoE in 10 feet of the hero firing, but if the hero walks at half speed, has 2 health, and no armor it balances things out.

The gun is too powerful in conjunction with the hero who wields it. There are other heroes that can one shot, but they have weaknesses. Gin doesn't have any, so her other two weapons balance her well, while Shleuder is OP, in HER hands. If Harec or Sha had the Shleuder it wouldn't be so bad.

I don't think they should Nerf Ginebra because she's too fun to play, they should instead nerf the gun.

[Power Penguin]

Upgraded, a single bounce gets me sub-200 damage, somewhere in the upper 100's. Shooting at feet still requires positioning on both the shooter and the target.

It is a strong weapon, but when compared to other high damage weapons, it sounds like you guys take issue with the rest of Ginebra's kit. Which I can agree with. But then we come back to weapon nerfing, after already admitting all of the other strengths she has. Jetpack was a mobility perk that got nerfed, but cat form remains infinite. If she had more trouble positioning herself at-will, perhaps it would not be as effective. It gets neutered against an opponent on the high ground, you can't make that easy foot shot in such a position.

Ginebra has great positioning potential with her power so the high ground advantage can quickly dissipate as to your other point even if you miss your fist shot with the Schleuder she can very quickly follow up. Sure it might be below 200 damage per shot but the rate you can put down tennis balls down range is also a factor.

[Power Penguin]

Upgraded, a single bounce gets me sub-200 damage, somewhere in the upper 100's. Shooting at feet still requires positioning on both the shooter and the target.

It is a strong weapon, but when compared to other high damage weapons, it sounds like you guys take issue with the rest of Ginebra's kit. Which I can agree with. But then we come back to weapon nerfing, after already admitting all of the other strengths she has. Jetpack was a mobility perk that got nerfed, but cat form remains infinite. If she had more trouble positioning herself at-will, perhaps it would not be as effective. It gets neutered against an opponent on the high ground, you can't make that easy foot shot in such a position.

There's nothing wrong with the gun, by itself. You can have a gun that does 1,000 damage AoE in 10 feet of the hero firing, but if the hero walks at half speed, has 2 health, and no armor it balances things out.

The gun is too powerful in conjunction with the hero who wields it. There are other heroes that can one shot, but they have weaknesses. Gin doesn't have any, so her other two weapons balance her well, while Shleuder is OP, in HER hands. If Harec or Sha had the Shleuder it wouldn't be so bad.

I don't think they should Nerf Ginebra because she's too fun to play, they should instead nerf the gun.

I agree. I'd rather have a weapon nerf than a character nerf.

[LordDraco3]

I don't think they should Nerf Ginebra because she's too fun to play

I mean, I felt that way about Hans, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
At least he got some good cards to balance it out, that help eliminate or reduce that crazy long refuel time.

*In general*, nerfs to the players are not fun for the players. I do not enjoy the 5th council armor nerf that we got with Hades one damn bite. Ginebra has no weaknesses as admitted by everyone here, but that's OK.

[Power Penguin]

I don't think they should Nerf Ginebra because she's too fun to play

I mean, I felt that way about Hans, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
At least he got some good cards to balance it out, that help eliminate or reduce that crazy long refuel time.

*In general*, nerfs to the players are not fun for the players. I do not enjoy the 5th council armor nerf that we got with Hades one damn bite. Ginebra has no weaknesses as admitted by everyone here, but that's OK.

 Giny as a character is super fun my only real problem is the Schlueder.