Author Topic: Schlueder needs a nerf  (Read 17021 times)

4nalManiac

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Re: Schlueder needs a nerf
Reply #30 on: April 21, 2018, 08:15:57 AM
Other issue we are not considering is SKILL. Yes it is way easier to just spam, therefore Schleuder FEELS OP but just get it, try it and you will se how is not a 10/10 weapon I would give it a 7 in that scale.
 
Is much more frightening to face a seasoned harec. Almost non existing stress (with aura mortis it doesnt even reveal where he is while he shoots). It can actually one shot people from ANY angle. Teletransportation which can be used for attack and sort of defense. Munnition wise is much more effective. Can shoot people while airborne rather easy. Just go and shoot down an Alicia or a Hans with Scheluder and then with any Harec rifle, you can even one hit a Hans in flight quite easily it doesnt even need to be a headshot. On the other hand with schleuder its quite hard.

Whenever you get one or two hits he is still at half health right in front of you. 5th council doesnt reduce melee damage, she gets an initial blow and then its almost over for her yeah you can guess his next move but is quite 50/50. I have seen lots of Ginebras getting owned in cqc by Hans that way. If there is a cheeselord in this game is Hans.

Yes, Schleuder could be considered a solid 8 in a decent player hands. But take in consideration that it takes a while to unlock Ginebra and then the weapon. There is no skill ceiling is just one pony trick. On the other hand default Harec sucks for beginners I give you that BUT once you understand the game it is a freaking nightmare. I still have virtual PTSD from an anta Harec on Breath of Hope. That unlimited range he had while sticking to the ceiling! It was just a freaking Vasiilli Zaitsev on aleph, dropping bodies left and right (and that gesture in which he bows in a very arrogant "nice try n00bs" kind of way, seals the deal). That default weapon can become a 20+ it has POTENTIAL, scheluder its good in general but has lots of issues, just as Ginebra.
 
With her weapons the noise is just a dead giveaway (slow travel, avoidable, not one hit kills most of the time) With Harec you only see the trace of the bullet and your aleph deprived corpse next to it. Yes I get the point that it feels cheap, but she's quite limited strategy wise. Hans is 10 times cheaper and you know it mate, he has cheesed us hard.

Ginebra is annoying to get but very few times I have seen her scoring actual vital maneuvers. Is nice to have it against antagonist as she can hide and seek while Aleph resets but she doesnt win games single handedly...on the other hand those Hans with zero skill...well...

BTW with new level up system (I know is not applicable per se, nor a solution and its going to give nightmares to the balance team with upcoming builds) face an Alicia say around 80 with a Ginebra in 40 is not even funny, Ginebra feels like a local in that match up. Yeah its grindy  and its not ideal by far but its another way you can get around some "bad" match ups.

boni_fan_gith

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Re: Schlueder needs a nerf
Reply #31 on: April 21, 2018, 05:04:43 PM
As someone who likes to play Antagonist, Ginebra has been a pain in my ass since her release. I complained about her on the forums a long time ago and nothing has changed. She still tilts me like no one else.

The Schlueder has exacerbated the problems with Ginebra and I now consider her to be a dominant character. At least on the Raider side (vs antagonists). Facing her and expecting to win as antagonist... Well, let's just say a lot of luck will be involved. Match-up matters too of course...

I think Ginebra needs a serious look-over balance wise.

TheBrentWoody

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Re: Schlueder needs a nerf
Reply #32 on: May 01, 2018, 11:31:12 PM
People who can use the Schleuder needs a nerf. 

To be fair, It is a great gun, and you can avoid incoming damage while dealing damage..it's got -predictable- angles unlike the Hornet.  That is why it is so good.  Some people get a knack for it.  Some people don't.  There is some skill (not a lot mind you) in fast firing that weapon in a productive way. 

Harec is good, but I don't like the Aura that was talked about earlier..too slow.  Max crit from the Ferrox is better and you can melee out of the reload, which is important.  Ignis being my personal favorite.   

All the Konstantin guns are HEAVY damage when they hit hard...Pepper Pot.  Rock and Roll.  Everyone has this gun that can be catastrophic to antagonists.   Do you think that the issue lies in the Ginebra investment?  People who have her have some amount of experience with the game?  I've beat my fair share of Schleuder's and I've lost some too.  I'm more worried about the competent Konstantin than I am Ginebra.  Ginebra is going to run away (more often than not) and that eliminates her dps, so the objective isn't being completed.  It's a matter of cornering her in a place where she can't get through without taking damage if you're in that (2nd survive) or later.   

I don't think she's an issue, because good players can deal with it.  I will say that she ROLLS public games where there isn't a good amount of team work, but so does Doldren.  And I consider Doldren near useless against a good team.  Pretty great against individuals though.


LordDraco3

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Re: Schlueder needs a nerf
Reply #33 on: May 02, 2018, 12:50:43 AM
I have always felt that cat form, in a pvp setting, is much more broken than any weapon. I don't care that she has a strong weapon, that I'm not nearly as good with as some others who use her more (seriously you don't just pick up Schleuder and pump out 500+ dmg 3 bounce shots on the first day, you gotta practice and learn it which I still haven't mastered). I am more miffed that she has an EZ escape button to run out survive timers when I am an antag fighting her. There are very few counters to her just simply running down timers, and that is often the only way to win as antag-- completely murder the enemy team.

TheBrentWoody

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Re: Schlueder needs a nerf
Reply #34 on: May 02, 2018, 12:55:02 AM
Redacted. Hah

TheBrentWoody

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Re: Schlueder needs a nerf
Reply #35 on: May 02, 2018, 12:58:22 AM
So...wanna know the way to do this?  Make it bounce an additional time and make the 1 bounce do the same damage as standard shot.  :D  Just feet shooting is dumb anyway.  :D

Level9Drow

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Re: Schlueder needs a nerf
Reply #36 on: May 02, 2018, 01:10:19 AM
Well then the first bounce would be useless. I would just nerf the damage progression per bounce. For example, a direct line hit would do 50, first bounce should be 70-75, and second bounce would be 100 - 150.

These values pretty much just came out of my ass, so if you have better values, please share. I know it does WAY more damage right now on live.

TheBrentWoody

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Re: Schlueder needs a nerf
Reply #37 on: May 02, 2018, 01:15:36 AM
The First bounce should be useless. Exploiting that 140 dmg is why people hate it.  Not necessarily for the three bounce crazy hits.  Just shooting at the floor isn't hard, and the bounce is to reward skilled shooting.  So again, just keep dmg as is, but make the first bounce same as 0 bounce.

Level9Drow

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Re: Schlueder needs a nerf
Reply #38 on: May 02, 2018, 01:53:59 AM
Ok, that's fine, but the reason the first bounce does more damage is because the initial damage is REALLY pathetic, it's like 40 or 50 with a poor RoF. If they made the first bounce not count then they would need to bring up the initial damage, just a tad. Probably to 80.

Whitebleidd

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Re: Schlueder needs a nerf
Reply #39 on: May 02, 2018, 03:11:32 AM
I find it a bit strange that ppl are taking this claim seriously, the weapon is fine, it has some high potential damage but it’s not free, it takes practice, the environment and projectile speed is so slow, couple that with the times you’ll be in a game with high ping and have to do extra compensation… the weapon imo is fine.

Her feline form is also fine, you can’t regen, take more damage, plus the painfully long time it takes to get out of it and the fact grapples are pretty effective on her when transformed.

I would have expected most nerf posts on the official forums to be about Kuzman (the real broken character in this game) to my understanding he has been in the game for 6+ months, how has he not been nerfed? (or mayb he has idk, in which case I’m glad I wasn’t here for that lol) He trivializes entire encounters even with his default but if he uses the weapon that does continuous damage even after he’s stopped firing it goes into the absurd, not to mention he is as easy to use as Konstantin, just look in the general direction of what u want to kill and spray.

TheBrentWoody

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Re: Schlueder needs a nerf
Reply #40 on: May 02, 2018, 04:12:19 AM
I've seen you play...

You have some opinions I'm sure, but most of us know exactly how strong the shleuder is, and with the fire rate increases it is too much, because you can fire until they die.

Kuzzman has a pretty effective counter by just coordinating where you are.

Konstantin is not easy to play well. He is just solid dps, but there are some nuanced maneuvers to him.

Kuzzman can lock down certain maps. Just gotta counter pick him.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 04:22:41 AM by TheBrentWoody »