[Level9Drow]

;_;

[OoTRIGGAMANoO]

Fair enough. Like I said I absolutely love Alicia and even if they make her harder to play I'm pretty sure she'll still be my girl. Savin up for the engagement ring lol. I do however use others as well. Ayana, Shae, Ginebra, and am trying to get into Mika and Hive lately. I'm a ladies man I just realized... Shucks;)

[Level9Drow]

Fair enough. Like I said I absolutely love Alicia and even if they make her harder to play I'm pretty sure she'll still be my girl. Savin up for the engagement ring lol. I do however use others as well. Ayana, Shae, Ginebra, and am trying to get into Mika and Hive lately. I'm a ladies man I just realized... Shucks;)

Bro, I know. She was my favorite character to. I was a Smoking Daisy player and when Rock & Roll came out, pre-Hades Betrayal known as the Novera "remade", I thought it was boring to use. It wasn't bugged like it is now to one shot people, but it was decent, far better than her other guns, but not OP like now. I didn't like using it because it was more fun using Smoking Daisy, and, back then, Smoking Daisy did more damage and could one shot people if you unloaded all your shells on them, but it was fair because it was a trade off because you have to unload the shells over their head or slide through them and unload and the RoF on unloading your shells all at once was VERY low, you basically have to reload all over like Rak Mayura. SD was a better gun also because you could do so many interesting tricks, like unload in the middle of getting face punched and flipping back that way your attacker would be left in a pile of explosive shells while you dodged out of danger and then they'd go boom. It was a finesse weapon with high learning curve and high potential ceiling. But it's direct fire was underwhelming.

To side with Draco, her default gun and Eager suck. At leas the Eager should be good, but it isn't. Her default and Eager need a buff. Smoking Daisy needs a tad buff, not sure how, and R&R needs a nerf.

[OoTRIGGAMANoO]

Ah... I've had my R&R at forge 8 since much lower level than I am now and I didn't know it could one shot. It's at 48% on the HK now and I still need 2 shots (which is still a tish unfair I suppose) unless we're in kissing distance. On Antags that is. It's at forge 16 currently. I went Dan Halen on it and said I wouldn't upgrade until I could "double it!!".

[Level9Drow]

Ah... I've had my R&R at forge 8 since much lower level than I am now and I didn't know it could one shot. It's at 48% on the HK now and I still need 2 shots (which is still a tish unfair I suppose) unless we're in kissing distance. On Antags that is. It's at forge 16 currently. I went Dan Halen on it and said I wouldn't upgrade until I could "double it!!".

Well what I mean by "one shot" is to put another player in wounded mode instantly with one shot. And it can do this right now because the game is reading a single shot as two or even sometimes three shots in one. So this downs even Council characters in one shot to wounded state. Even without this bug it's still incredibly powerful because you can upgrade the RoF to the point where you can down a person in seconds. in my honest opinion I think it's range it to far for it's damage and RoF being so high.

If you were referring to the smoking Daisy, the only way you can "one shot" wound someone is to unload all of your shells on someone. Otherwise it's normal fire does about 70ish (pre-Hades Betrayal) and only has 3 shots with VERY limited range and slow travel speed.

[XjabberwockieX]

As I have said previously, I like the Rock and Roll, I enjoy using it and it has always been her strongest and most flexible option when you factor in it's range. After the bug is fixed it should still be a dangerous weapon.
  My main issue with this whole Alicia R&R antag fiasco is that when a player antags as R&R Alicia it sucks all the air out of the room. Unless you are in a coordinated team your about to have a bad day. To be honest I respect every single Antag that doesnt cop out and choose R&R Alicia OR uses a different gun like Smoking Daisy that requires more skill because it is a weapon in a bugged state and it is hurting the game and its further hurting the playerbase.
  So my message to Alicia R&R antags who wanna 'nuke noobs' is this. You are using a bugged gun that gives you an unfair advantage in the game and is not working as intended. Doing this is turning people away and hurting the game. If you care at all about the future of it maybe try out a different character sometimes to run antag with. At the end of the day everyone makes their own decisions and your gonna play the way you want to but if your wanting Raiders to last it wouldnt hurt to hold off until the next patch before you resume the nuking of noobs.

[zMalevolencEz]

Fact of the matter is it is taking to long to correct this bug. While I agree with everyone that Alicia is a decent character and rock n roll being her most if not only viable weapon it would benefit everyone if they would just drop a hot patch to correct it.

I've been on the receiving end of it one to many times myself and it is becoming annoying when every antagonist you encounter is either push gun Konstantin or rock n roll Alicia. Not that either can't be dealt with but a major headache overall.

[OoTRIGGAMANoO]

Just tried the "fixed" R&R on Low Blow against 165 Tag... Konsti. 2nd time in 2 days. Same player. R&R was bugged last time I played this person. Same outcome both times. 1st map was No Res. They hit me twice with whatever the hell weapon that is and I'm crawlin. Or, crawl, push, fall, die. So I think I get why you wanted Alicia fixed. Spayed. Neutered. She was too formidable against your fave... Who seems to be just as cheap as you say she was. Hmm... Pots are always callin kettles black I suppose. I hadn't seen anyone Tag with him like that or maybe it was the weapon, either way now we gotta fix him too I guess. See what you start with all the whining. You're not supposed to win every game. Anything forever and always has this rule. No one ever is 1000 and 0. It's Ok to lose sometimes. If you're only playing for rewards then how would you ever enjoy this game. Agree or disagree with any one of you, if we are ever on a team I'm still gonna give my all and try my best to have as many backs as I can. It's just gonna be a bit harder now folks. I'm fine with hard. Sorry for whoever isn't.

[LordDraco3]

So I think I get why you wanted Alicia fixed. Spayed. Neutered. She was too formidable against your fave... Who seems to be just as cheap as you say she was. Hmm... Pots are always callin kettles black I suppose. I hadn't seen anyone Tag with him like that or maybe it was the weapon, either way now we gotta fix him too I guess.

I'm not sure I understand what this is in reference to? Who are you directing this at?

[OoTRIGGAMANoO]

Just Konsti Tags in general. This player I haven't seen in the forums. But there is another who plays Special K on here, just not as a Tag. So I got my fun Raidering nuts cut off and my full on team saving abilities shot to poo... But at least every ones favorite Russian accent havin but not from Russia robot man gets to stink us all up with his synthetic f'n innards (lol) all the more. Yeah maybe he was from what was once called Russia but we don't know a thing about Earth's geo political climate in this story. Just BP n sorta Mars. So he's probably just a robot from Saturn with a head who liked the accent as the lore seemed to state. Anyway... I've got beers to drink and Tags to molest. See you on the Broken Planet. Xoxo

[Level9Drow]

So I think I get why you wanted Alicia fixed. Spayed. Neutered. She was too formidable against your fave... Who seems to be just as cheap as you say she was. Hmm... Pots are always callin kettles black I suppose. I hadn't seen anyone Tag with him like that or maybe it was the weapon, either way now we gotta fix him too I guess.

I'm not sure I understand what this is in reference to? Who are you directing this at?

I think what he's saying is that he played Alicia with the new R&R and got killed by Konstantin with Tolchock. He's refering to me using Konstantin with tolchock and still losing to the bugged R&R and that Konstantin is my favorite and that I'm calling the kettle black. I hope he corrects me if I'm wrong.

But let me respond and correct him. Konstantin is NOT my favorite and I do believe the Tolshock is a bit OP as well a she does. Ironically Alicia was my favorite, but it wasn't the R&R Alicia, it was the SD Alicia I played all the time before the R&R made SD obsolete. I used Tolshock because it seems the only thing that has a chance to stop Alicia with R&R.

I would suggest he keep away from edges as it can push you off. I don't think it two shots though, I've never hit a person with two bullets with Tolchock and wounded them so I'm wondering if he means two burst of fire. I don't know if it does too much damage, because a lot could depend on weapon build and level disparity between Raider and Antag. The R&R was on hit wounding even when the Alicia player was a mere level 40 and the opponent was 150+.

I think he's upset the gun got a nerf. I'm very happy it was nerfed. But haven't felt its effect in game yet so will reserve my judgement until then.

But you know Draco, this all may be a moot point it they bring in Arena, eh?

[Deathprize]

It still absolutely wastes half the characters in the game. With full dynamic and hero killer on it can fire so fast there isn't a lot you can do. It needs either the spread or range dropping.
Pretty much every antagonist uses it. Even if downed they can take you out before you reach them.
 I know Konstantin with Tolchok is annoying too, but at least you can hit him with long range shots.
It's not unbeatable I know, but playing against someone when the MMR difference is quite high makes life a chore and you will lose more often than not. Although its not as bad on the more open maps.

On console as you can't aim as quickly it's even more irritating as Alicia is really hard to hit in the air due to the aiming acceleration kicking in when following her and throwing your aim off.
How good your team needs to be to counter it compared to how easy it is to abuse is a tad unfair.

Going up against the same guy 4 times in a row with a 5% plus MMR difference, when they are using rock and roll is the very definition of unfun on the double agent level.

[Level9Drow]

I just had an antag last night with R&R. I think the Alicia was somewhere in the upper double digits. I was 130ish and playing Iune on Hanging by a Thread using Sigh with the fast recharge card. I think it's good now, it didn't one shot me and I was still standing after one shot, BUT, I was also considerably higher level than her. She would make quick work of me if I didn't stun lock her with Sigh, that was the ONLY way I survived. I still think the range it too long for a weapon with that damage and fire rate. Compared to all the other weapons in the game, the range OR fire rate seems unjustified.

Sure, Harec can hit for 1k with Aura Mortis, but he has to hit the head AND he only gets one shot and has to reload. Sure Konstantin can chew someone up with Tolchock at a decent range to, but he's slow and easy to hit and is not up in the air like Alicia flying around. Sure Bloody Marry can murder people, but Doldren is VERY fragile and isn't mobile.

I think the R&R's damage is fine, the range is kind of absurd for the "shot gun" specialists of the game. It's hitting 2.5 times a second at 90 points, it's still a tad bit much for two people on equal grounds and one of them NOT an Alicia with R&R. It's manageable when you out-level her now, as in my case, but she still hurt me bad and I still had to be careful; NOTE: I was way higher level than her. But when there is a level disparity that advantages the R&R Alicia player I feel that it's pain will still be felt.

[Deathprize]

Well just built Alicia's starting weapon at level 25. My lord it's awful. With max points in caliber it hits for 30 damage. It can't kill a wardog grunt with a full clip! Oh and to add insult to injury it has damage fall off too. My level 0 rock and roll outclasses it in every way and doesn't seem to suffer from damage fall off. No wonder nobody uses any of her other guns.

All her guns aside from rnr need looking at as they are all bad. I thought the idea was every gun should be viable?

[Power Penguin]

Well just built Alicia's starting weapon at level 25. My lord it's awful. With max points in caliber it hits for 30 damage. It can't kill a wardog grunt with a full clip! Oh and to add insult to injury it has damage fall off too. My level 0 rock and roll outclasses it in every way and doesn't seem to suffer from damage fall off. No wonder nobody uses any of her other guns.

All her guns aside from rnr need looking at as they are all bad. I thought the idea was every gun should be viable?

Smoking Daisy is fun but not practical and yeah the rest of her guns are a dumpster fire in comparison to RnR.