Author Topic: Option for no antagonist  (Read 15688 times)

Level9Drow

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Re: Option for no antagonist
Reply #15 on: September 25, 2018, 06:00:28 PM
I love going up a good antagonist and playing as the antagonist it's the main reason I'm still with this game. I'm fine with changes cuz somethings are way imbalanced sometimes for raiders and sometimes for antagonist.  Also majority of missions when you get salty at losing to a antagonist look at your team and it's composition. If your going to have a no option for antagonist you should get hit hard in the rewards section for opting out those who participate in pvp should always have the superior rewards.

WRONG! You give them EXTRA rewards for PvP, you do not PENALIZE them for not choosing PVP. Classic bully PvPer right here.

Onionsunleashes

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Re: Option for no antagonist
Reply #16 on: September 26, 2018, 12:59:12 PM
Bully? 98 percent of the comments on this forum that have something good to say about pvp has you complaining right after. It's like you think if you spread your complaints in enough threads you'll get the changes you want. also ran into you recently in a mission where you did nothing as antag one change they should do is idle players get nothing
I love going up a good antagonist and playing as the antagonist it's the main reason I'm still with this game. I'm fine with changes cuz somethings are way imbalanced sometimes for raiders and sometimes for antagonist.  Also majority of missions when you get salty at losing to a antagonist look at your team and it's composition. If your going to have a no option for antagonist you should get hit hard in the rewards section for opting out those who participate in pvp should always have the superior rewards.

WRONG! You give them EXTRA rewards for PvP, you do not PENALIZE them for not choosing PVP. Classic bully PvPer right here.

EliteRider21

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Re: Option for no antagonist
Reply #17 on: October 20, 2018, 08:49:38 PM
I've had about enough of this damn antag system... I kept encountering the same scummy ass russian antag just praying on newbies on no reservation as god damn Doldren, always punching out of his damn ability! This is just why we need a switch, so we don't have to deal with that shit, plus everytime i played that mission, the connection was so bad and the scumbag was perfecly fine to the point on the second run i just quited out, then my game kept crashing everytime i get to the main menu... I swear if that's how you're banned and i can't play Spacelords on PS4 anymore... I'm reinstalling to see if it'll fix it. But seriously, antags needs to be kept out of mentor matches or we need an ON/OFF switch for antags that's on by default for new players, i'm really getting sick of this damn system and those scummy antags...

Ac3_f4ce

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Re: Option for no antagonist
Reply #18 on: October 21, 2018, 08:43:39 PM
You guys honestly need to stop complaining about the Antag system. It's not always balanced in the Antags favor. There have been numerous times where the AI has not beneficial. Playing as an antagonist I have seen the AI be as dumb as rocks and not do anything to players or be so few that it's a ghost town. I have played as a raider with no Antag and been demolished by AI becasue they were so coordinated. I then play the same mission with an Antag and it be significantly easier.

If you choose to switch off the Antag system you should get reduced rewards than a player willing to go into an Antag match.
This system has been around since the beginning of the game. I honestly believe if they gave the player a choice, more than half of the player base would leave it off. Something with mentor matches. But suspect that 75% of player would opt out mentor matches.

This game was based on a pvevp model its like Destiny Gambit or Left dead Vs mode. I honestly hope MSE doesn't give players because some of you don't like losing or don't like changing ypur playstyle. This game is about teamwork if you are off by yourself expect to get picked off by the enemy or an Antag.

Again I speak from experience. I'm lvl 116 in game. I have witnessed from both sides of the equation. I have been an Antag and have been completely obliterated and plenty of times returned the favor. I have played matches where players have pulled victory right out their asses. Becasue at some point they learned how to work together and watch each other's back.

I'm not debating there are balance issues but not all of the blame should fall on MSE. There are scrub players out there then  there are skilled ones. And in between that we got trolls. Learn how to play this game correctly, learn from your mistakes and change your play style.  I promise you won't win all ypur matches but you will win most of them. Nobody likes losing but don't go to the game devs telling them that their game is too hard for YOU and tell them to change it to better suit YOU


Hiero_Glyph

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Re: Option for no antagonist
Reply #19 on: October 21, 2018, 09:29:27 PM
@Ac3_face

I'm curious, but how would you ever be able to speak for anyone but yourself? Of course players are telling the devs what is best for themselves.

Also, if you were to reduce the rewards for opt-out, non-antag matches, what would be left to even call a reward?

It is interesting that you admit the vast majority would prefer non-antag matches, yet you believe MSE sticking to their original intent is somehow a benefit for the game. Isn't having more active players a better outcome?

It sounds like you know the answers to these problems but you would rather white knight than admit the truth of the game's current situation.

Ac3_f4ce

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Re: Option for no antagonist
Reply #20 on: October 21, 2018, 10:02:31 PM
They could change the reward system couldn't they? Wpuldnt it be easier to just change how much gold and faction points we get at the end?

Now I'm no white knight I just legit like the mechanic. It adds spice to the game. The reason I don't see a need for a toggle is becasue it's not like an antagonist shows up on every mission you have good day and you have bad ones. You can play a whole day and only get 3 Antags missions and then some days you get like 10. The PVEVP model has something for everyone. You got on missions you fight against the enemy and every so often you get a mission with an Antag. It's not a horrible experience. You are just upset becasue you lost or maybe you won but didn't get that blueprint you wanted. You're frustrated I get it. But are you honestly saying you wouldn't get bored of this game if all you did was play the same missions over and over, always winning. I know I would. I feel if they changed the Antag mechanic it would be a different game from what they originally set out to make. And don't think Antags have all the fun. We get frustrated too. The imbalance goes both ways


 
 



Hiero_Glyph

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Re: Option for no antagonist
Reply #21 on: October 21, 2018, 10:31:14 PM
They could change the reward system couldn't they? Wpuldnt it be easier to just change how much gold and faction points we get at the end?

Now I'm no white knight I just legit like the mechanic. It adds spice to the game. The reason I don't see a need for a toggle is becasue it's not like an antagonist shows up on every mission you have good day and you have bad ones. You can play a whole day and only get 3 Antags missions and then some days you get like 10. The PVEVP model has something for everyone. You got on missions you fight against the enemy and every so often you get a mission with an Antag. It's not a horrible experience. You are just upset becasue you lost or maybe you won but didn't get that blueprint you wanted. You're frustrated I get it. But are you honestly saying you wouldn't get bored of this game if all you did was play the same missions over and over, always winning. I know I would. I feel if they changed the Antag mechanic it would be a different game from what they originally set out to make. And don't think Antags have all the fun. We get frustrated too. The imbalance goes both ways

When did I ever say I was upset? Don't direct your emotions or justifications on me. The simple fact is that not having antags in mentor matches is a win-win scenario as it makes them desirable and benefits new players. Additionally, giving better rewards in antag matches makes them a benefit instead of a statistical loss that they are now, even when you win.

There is no crying over loses involved with these facts. The antag system is poorly implemented in its current form and needs to be improved and my goal is to suggest ways to make not only the antag system better, but the entire game.

Tekato

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Re: Option for no antagonist
Reply #22 on: October 21, 2018, 10:36:38 PM
It's not about winning or losing... I've lost plenty of matches with no antagonist because the AI enemies can be very competent and difficult. Antags imo are just annoying and most of the time abuse/exploit in order to do anything they can to win. But honestly I don't care what they do with this game anymore as I have already quit. but I'll still check the forums once in a while to see if they change anything that could make me come back.

Ac3_f4ce

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Re: Option for no antagonist
Reply #23 on: October 21, 2018, 10:56:21 PM
Antags on mentor matches is a little unfair. I'm won't dispute they could ease up on the rookies. But I think streamlining communication between players would help a lot with rookies. Communication now is horrid. But I am completely against making Antag matches optional

Hiero_Glyph

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Re: Option for no antagonist
Reply #24 on: October 21, 2018, 11:59:50 PM
Antags on mentor matches is a little unfair. I'm won't dispute they could ease up on the rookies. But I think streamlining communication between players would help a lot with rookies. Communication now is horrid. But I am completely against making Antag matches optional

And that's entirely the problem since you have decided to refuse an option before seeing if would improve the game. There are several methods MSE could use to make antags optional and still improve the experience for antags.

At least in its current form playing as an antag provides more negatives to the community than it does positives and that is why it is such a hotly debated issue. My goal is to make playing against an antag a benefit for everyone, but making it optional would be a great first step in maintaining a larger community.

Level9Drow

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Re: Option for no antagonist
Reply #25 on: October 22, 2018, 12:09:43 AM
I just surrender or suicide when I see an antag that is farming low level players. I don't even care anymore, I really don't. I have no time to waste on this ALREADY slow grind with an antag to cause my meager rewards to be reduced to nothing. I got to get OUT of that mightmare as fast as possible and back into normal games. Is it kind of shitty? Yea probably. I don't give a shit because I think forced PvP is kind of shitty. Surrendering and suicides are erely a symptom of poor design.

SomeGuy

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Re: Option for no antagonist
Reply #26 on: October 29, 2018, 09:59:59 PM
I do enjoy the antag system. I don't really try hard as antag though, and instead just make myself a sort of mini-boss to be dealt with here and there occasionally.  It's fun to actually play it like the bastard that shows up to be a problem, not a team-wiper, and still get rewards out of it.  However, it definitely has it's issues.

IF YOU LOOK AT NOTHING ELSE, DEVS, LOOK AT THIS:
MENTOR MATCHES/BELOW LEVEL 10 MATCHES NEED TO BE IMMUNE TO ANTAGONIST INVASION.  FOR F*CK'S SAKE THESE NEWBS CAN'T EVEN PUT THEMSELVES IN THE ANTAG POSITION!

FIX THE LEVEL/MMR SPREAD BETWEEN WHAT MISSIONS ANTAGS ARE ALLOWED TO INVADE- DO NOT LET THEM INVADE MORE THAN 50 LEVELS 20% APART. FOR F*CK'S SAKE, LET THESE BEHEMOTHS FIGHT EACH OTHER INSTEAD OF THE LEVEL 5'S, YOU'RE PUTTING CHIHUAHUAS AGAINST GODZILLA

My first problem with the Antagonist system is the fact it can land in the lap of newbies that have absolutely no idea what the heck is going on, and no gear to deal with it. I mean that in the strict sense- I'm in a mentor match, and the level 1's-9's suddenly see "level 292 antagonist has invaded your mission!"?  They cannot even interact with the antagonist system themselves until level 10, and may not even be informed of it until then.  How is this in any way fair to the new player, OR the teammates playing with the new guy? What if it's a non-mentor team full of sub-10's against this guy?

The game is hard enough in most cases, and trying to get friends to play more of it past lvl 8 or 9 is like pulling teeth.  Tossing an antagonist several hundred levels higher into a game, with late-game characters, stats, and fully upgraded rare weapons that have lethal abilities... It's throwing newbies against the wall like waterballoons full of blood.  I can easily see people going "THIS is what the game is like? To hell with it."

That leads me to the other main problem I have, is the level/MMR spread of antag/raider pairings.  Most antags I've seen vastly outlevel basically anyone else I've ever seen playing- most, that is. This means the same problems as listed above befall the other people playing- the game god decides to pair you with someone that's got free selection in an arsenal of characters, skills, and weapons, vs. you at level 50, whom doesn't even have half what the game could offer because of the gold and blueprint grind.  The best games I've had with antagonists is when they're largely even playing field.  That accounts for 2 of the antag games I've had.  Every one of the others went one of three ways:
1) The antag was lowbie and had bad enough stats they were like fighting a mook, sometimes easier because of the MMR difficulty stuff
2) The antag one shots entire groups of people with things like Loaht's cluster grenades, and annihilates the team before second mission phase (any mission).
3) We had a level 200+ on our team that had absolutely devastating firepower which wiped out the antag instantly every time.

There was one outlier with a lvl 300+ Harec. Guys aim was *insane.*

Still, the gear grind/level advantage is absolutely a real thing, and it's the main reason the antagonist system is an eyeroll mechanic at this point.

Lehi

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Re: Option for no antagonist
Reply #27 on: October 30, 2018, 04:44:28 PM
You are one and only "Just" some guy.

flowone

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Re: Option for no antagonist
Reply #28 on: November 06, 2018, 06:38:50 PM
I would compromise on not letting Antags on newer players but the rest of you are free game. I'm coming for you all. Know that when I ruin your games and blow your BP rolls, and one time rewards I'm in tears laughing. I actually see a few of my victims on these "Optional Antag Games" threads.

Evil laugher intensifies

Level9Drow

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Re: Option for no antagonist
Reply #29 on: November 06, 2018, 07:48:17 PM
I would compromise on not letting Antags on newer players but the rest of you are free game. I'm coming for you all. Know that when I ruin your games and blow your BP rolls, and one time rewards I'm in tears laughing. I actually see a few of my victims on these "Optional Antag Games" threads.

Evil laugher intensifies

I hope you never get them on the same team in a raider mission. some of us remember the names of the antag that "drank tears".