[LordDraco3]

snip

Yeah sure, I'm the only one talking about Tolchok, whatever you say. I recommend you check out the search feature on these forums. Or maybe check youtube for the countless videos of people literally using the gun to prove how broken it is (which I did as well, wayyyy before I made that thread yesterday). Plenty of players, myself included, have used it and said "yeah this is OP, needs a nerf."


I've also soloed most of the missions on Very Hard/Insane since probably before you started playing. Got videos of a few of those, too, not that any of it matters. Not sure why what I can solo is even relevant in this thread.

And let's not pretend that you know anything about me. So for you to call me a "trash person" reflects more on you than it does on me.

Bro.... I'm not the one immediately replying to a dev response and telling them they are screw ups and they are stupid. I've made plenty of complaints about the game, but every day I read posts here and on the discord and I legit wonder how MSE hasn't just told us all to fuck off and pulled the plug yet. This is one of the most nagging, insulting, whiny fanbases I've seen for an indie game. You'd think EA or some other MegaGiantMultiNational game publisher was in charge of it. And that behavior deserves to be called out. Constructive criticism isn't this, which was a player's insane ranting on the facebook post announcing today's patch:

And it sure as hell isn't "you made the game worse. Stupid is as stupid does." as a direct reply to "be patient and have in mind these changes take time to apply. Thank you very much, as always, for your feedback."

If Skyline has been able to literally call everyone "retards" in like 90% of his posts and no one say a thing about it, I'd say that me calling you trash for your insulting responses is more than tame.

[Hiero_Glyph]

Yes but at a certain point it all becomes more of a hindrance than a help. They are CLEARLY responding to feedback. They are CLEARLY talking to us. They are CLEARLY making changes in the game based of our feedback. Let's stop being an ass now and bring up our concerns in a more polite manner.

This is coming from ME, for Christ sake. I have decided to dial my ass back because I actually like this game and want it to do well and blowing a gasket every time I get an Antag in a mentor match with one disconnect a level 1 and a level 12 isn't going to help anything. Or when the AI become super Sayans and punish me for grouping. Do these things suck? YES. Do I feel they are unfair? YES. But I we have to just let them know what's going on constructively now and let them look at the data.

Dial it back. If you like this game, dial it back a bit.

I'm honestly not sure what you felt I did that was rude. Was it the Forrest Gump quote because that isn't calling someone stupid, it is saying that if you make stupid choices it reflects on how people perceive you. Or more specifically a person isn't measured by intelligence but by how they act towards others. It is fitting considering the reply by LordDraco3 though.

The reason I used it was because the change is only intended to hurt the raiders chances on the mission. So instead of reducing the amount of time the raiders have to pull the switches, MSE made the switches take considerably longer to activate which introduces a whole bunch of new problems. As noted, I don't even think you can solo this on Insane with how it is now. That's bad game design at best, and untested at worst.

So if MSE wants to sneak in this change (which was later added to the patch notes) then I'm going to call them on it, because it effects the game in ways they have not considered.

[LordDraco3]

I agree with you on In Shock lever change criticisms. I agree with a lot of the issues that people have. The problem is definitely the childish way grievances are presented on a regular basis through the community, and I wholeheartedly believe it is a large reason why dev communication is almost nothing compared to a year ago. I sure wouldn't want to have to come on here and talk to us when you know you'll just get dogpiled for random things. Your reply to Karen was about today's In Shock changes? In a thread where she was responding about mentor matches and that changes would come. If it's not one thing, it's another.

[Level9Drow]

@Hiero_Glyph: I know, I agree with all the same criticism you bring up. We've seen each others posts over the last year and are pretty much advocates of the same thing. But in light of their changes and recent feedback it's clear to see that ..

A) They're busy and didn't have the time or complete picture to respond as frequently. Only after they presented their changes and updates did they respond a lot. They're not Blizzard. So I felt bad being so negative or harsh. I'm used to Overwatch Forums and they're so huge you can go ham on them and rip them apart, they don't care, it bounces of Blizzard because the audience is so big they can take it. But no indie games. Everything we say has a much bigger impact on things. So I realized there was a small amount of responsibility I should have when communicating with them. Even if I do feel my grievances are valid.

B) I genuinely like this game, and if I like it I don't want to hold them back by being super negative. So if you like the game to try and give supportive criticism. Antag matches tilt me I hate PvP, trust me when I say I understand frustration. But if we like the game we should try and resist going on the offense.

My two cents.

[Deathprize]

I agree people get a bit too bitchy with the posts. This I believe is because a majority of people's issues are really obvious ones, that have been around for months in some cases. I understand that some may seem simple but be difficult to fix. Just acknowledgement that it is an issue goes a long way, as at least then people aren't shouting into a void.

Just a small we are doing something about this helps. I have seen it in action in my own job. Two months over with analysis and no contact makes people angry and edgy. A few emails explaining why and people are completely fine. The results get there at the same time if both situations, but  the client is less likely to give bad feedback when they know what is going on and it stops things from escalating.

[Hiero_Glyph]

I agree people get a bit too bitchy with the posts. This I believe is because a majority of people's issues are really obvious ones, that have been around for months in some cases. I understand that some may seem simple but be difficult to fix. Just acknowledgement that it is an issue goes a long way, as at least then people aren't shouting into a void.

Just a small we are doing something about this helps. I have seen it in action in my own job. Two months over with analysis and no contact makes people angry and edgy. A few emails explaining why and people are completely fine. The results get there at the same time if both situations, but  the client is less likely to give bad feedback when they know what is going on and it stops things from escalating.

The issue here is money. They need it and we have it. So what do they need to do to get it? For me it's transparency (obviously not with everything), but Spacelords has some major issues to overcome and the combination of this change plus mentor matches makes me doubt their understanding of the actual problems that the game is facing.

I understand that the developer cannot fix everthing instantly but this change hurts the mission in ways that just make it frustrating. I don't expect it to be reverted but I do expect MSE to explain why the change was made since it wasn't even listed in the patch notes at first. I also have a strong feeling that they didn't test it and that the change was made for consistency, not for gameplay. Good luck getting a dev to admit that though.

[Deathprize]

No I am 100% with you. The last few sets of changes have added more frustration to the game. The difficulty spiking being one of them. Apparently no-one play testing the game noticed. A cynical person may say it happening just after the game goes free to play, seems like it may have been in order to slow progress. But it is equally likely to be a glitch.

Issues like making all the  objectives harder to do, half the cast being unless on around half of the levels, tolchok and the instant killing of the prorector, and the insane gold costs for the guns are harder to look look past, because they are either super obvious and/or have been complained about for months.

[Whitebleidd]

We all played "mentor matches" before they ever had a name or associated extra bonus rewards.

And there was never as many crocodile tears before, as there are now. It's just the new scapegoat, since it has a shiny new name to blame.

This, anyone that has entered matchmaking solo has been doing mentor matches long before the game went ftp, it can be frustrating sometimes sure, especially with an antag, but it’s nothing new, I’m personally glad I’m at least getting more xp for said matches (although also getting a bit more gold wouldn’t hurt…).

The biggest offender here is again, antags… if they are not in the match, 9 out of 10 mentor games will end in victory (in my experience) and therefore a better experience for newcomers, so as it was suggested in another thread, just don’t allow antags in mentor matches.

[Hiero_Glyph]

We all played "mentor matches" before they ever had a name or associated extra bonus rewards.

And there was never as many crocodile tears before, as there are now. It's just the new scapegoat, since it has a shiny new name to blame.

The biggest offender here is again, antags… if they are not in the match, 9 out of 10 mentor games will end in victory (in my experience) and therefore a better experience for newcomers, so as it was suggested in another thread, just don’t allow antags in mentor matches.

Everyone knows that is the solution to this problem. It would turn mentor matches from something that are avoided to something that players want since it would guarantee there wouldn't be an antag. That is why it is so frustrating since the solution is so simple yet MSE won't implement it.

[Agent-Z46]

I hate to say it but you made the game worse. I would get into specifics but after one mentor match (2 level 1 players) of In Shock with an antag I'm ready to quit. It's like you are too busy looking at data to actually play the game. We lost because I had to hold the switch instead of just flipping it and the antag simply waited for us to be stuck there to down us.

By the way, this change isn't listed anywhere in the patch notes. I'm sure it was just an oversight, just like allowing antags in mentor matches, right? I mean it's either a simple oversight or you want level 1 players against level 72 antags. Stupid is as stupid does.

And the community wonders why dev responses are so few and far between these days. Trash response from a trash person

Like your thread crying over getting knocked back by the Tolchock? We all get emotional but what benefit does this change have other than purposely making a mechanic have a higher failure rate? Can you even solo this on Insane?

And let's not pretend that you know anything about me. So for you to call me a "trash person" reflects more on you than it does on me.

Draco simply expressed that he believes the Tolchok is unbalanced. He didn't whine or throw a tantrum about losing. Unlike Draco however you're incredibly disrespectful and whine about every little thing you don't like about the game. Karen took the time to reply to this thread and you're instant reaction is to respond by whining and being disrespectful. It's amazing that the devs continue to interact with the community despite the treatment they get from you and others like you. Every time I see a comment like yours I worry that this how they think majority of the community acts. You're not just offering criticism. You're whining and throwing a tantrum then when a dev shows up you lash out at them.

[Hiero_Glyph]

I hate to say it but you made the game worse. I would get into specifics but after one mentor match (2 level 1 players) of In Shock with an antag I'm ready to quit. It's like you are too busy looking at data to actually play the game. We lost because I had to hold the switch instead of just flipping it and the antag simply waited for us to be stuck there to down us.

By the way, this change isn't listed anywhere in the patch notes. I'm sure it was just an oversight, just like allowing antags in mentor matches, right? I mean it's either a simple oversight or you want level 1 players against level 72 antags. Stupid is as stupid does.

And the community wonders why dev responses are so few and far between these days. Trash response from a trash person

Like your thread crying over getting knocked back by the Tolchock? We all get emotional but what benefit does this change have other than purposely making a mechanic have a higher failure rate? Can you even solo this on Insane?

And let's not pretend that you know anything about me. So for you to call me a "trash person" reflects more on you than it does on me.

Draco simply expressed that he believes the Tolchok is unbalanced. He didn't whine or throw a tantrum about losing. Unlike Draco however you're incredibly disrespectful and whine about every little thing you don't like about the game. Karen took the time to reply to this thread and you're instant reaction is to respond by whining and being disrespectful. It's amazing that the devs continue to interact with the community despite the treatment they get from you and others like you. Every time I see a comment like yours I worry that this how they think majority of the community acts. You're not just offering criticism. You're whining and throwing a tantrum then when a dev shows up you lash out at them.

It's funny that everyone in the community agrees with me after testing but I'm the bad guy for calling them out with stealth changes that were undocumented at the time of my reply.

And am I the only person in the world that realizes saying 'stupid is as stupid does' isn't the same as calling someone stupid? It's a metaphor for being judged by your actions. I guess if you do stupid things a lot then you might take offense to it, but for me it's a mantra to always consider your actions (ideally before making them). Sure, it may seem harsh but even intelligent people are capable of doing stupid things.

[LordDraco3]

I see it in the discord a lot.... certain users get very heated about their frustrations. Start saying things are stupid and retarded. I might agree with you regarding some of the update, like In Shock, but like Agent said, it's all about presenting yourself. Or like Drow said, we aren't dealing with EA or Blizzard or some huge company, we have about a hundred or so developers working on a project with some really high production value. They are people too, I just get tired of seeing grievances aired in a childish manner rather than a constructive one.

As for your saying, intent doen't come across so well through text, especially without context.

I will leave this here again, a good insight in regards to indie devs. https://www.pcgamer.com/the-daunting-aftermath-of-releasing-your-dream-game-as-told-by-the-devs-of-stardew-valley-owlboy-and-more/?utm_content=bufferbec69&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertw

[MSE_Hellath]

Dear all,

Just a friendly reminder to keep the conversation cordial among fellow forum members. Skyline has earned a 2 week ban, that can become permanent if this behaviour persists once he is allowed to rejoin the forum.

Thanks all for your contributions and support.