[JustSomeGuy]

This game mode is impossible to balance. There is no if, ands, or buts, about it. It's a 4v1 assisted by bots and the bots randomly scale from laughably useless, to ridiculously overpowered. The same can be said for the Raiders themselves, worthless baby Harecs and terrifying veteran Raks

Why is antagonist mode so widely reviled by the community? Because it's not balanced, it's never been balanced, and in its current state can never be balanced. Damage values and number tweaks will not fix this game mode, it needs fundamental gameplay reworks or it needs to go away. Preferably both, it goes away until the new antagonist mode, that is not a broken piece of fecal dump, is updated.

Does any developer, admin, etc, have anything to say about the state of antagonist mode?

Are you aware of just how poorly implemented it is?

Are you aware that it brutalizes and discourages new players? New players that this game badly needs I might add.

Are you aware that it has done nothing but hurt your game since day one?

Moreover, what do you plan to do about it? Do you have anything to say that will reassure interested players and longtime veterans? Do you have any plans that will fix the core problems of antagonist mode?

Please keep in mind that continued silence on such important issues only further enrages the community and makes us think you're not doing anything.

Too long, didn't read: Are the developers going to do anything to improve antagonist mode?

[MSE_Ojuel]

Hi there, I'm a technical game designer for the game.

Truth is we are working on some improvements concerning the Antagonist mode even before the Aurora update gets released.

These changes and improvements concern both value tweaking and changes in some features of Antagonist matches. We'll keep revealing them as their release gets closer.

I hope you like them when the time comes.

[Cazic-Thule]

They're not going to get rid of the system despite the fact that it is factually hurting the game and has caused thousands if not tens of thousands of potential paying players to quit playing the game, which makes them less money and helps make sure their game will eventually fail and die. It's really simple and I've seen it many times over the years in many games that have failed. A few people with a lot of pull on the team want the antagonist system to succeed so badly because they personally think it's a great idea and they refuse to admit they were wrong and give up on it no matter how much damage it does to their product. You hit the nail on the head when you said that fixing or balancing the antagonist system is not possible as it stands now, no changes will undo the damage it does to the playerbase every day, it's simply a bad idea. Period. As a game developer you should never design any aspect of your game specifically with trolling and pissing people off in mind because as it turns out when you piss people off on purpose they stop playing your game and giving you money. Ojule's reply should tell you everything you need to know: MSE is willing to let Spacelords die sooner than back down from a terrible mistake.

[Viner]

All that is needed is to increase the reward significantly and immediately it makes sense to defeat the antagonist. Lost? Well nothing. The reward will still be high than in a normal, without antagonist, battle. I would like the antagonist to come to our battle and just have fun.
In this case, you do not need to change the system.
Now I hate fighting against the antagonist, even if he is weak because I spend more time and get less reward.

These changes and improvements concern both value tweaking and changes in some features of Antagonist matches. We'll keep revealing them as their release gets closer.

I'm looking forward to it

[Whitebleidd]

As a game developer you should never design any aspect of your game specifically with trolling and pissing people off in mind because as it turns out when you piss people off on purpose they stop playing your game and giving you money.

This here is important to highlight because it perfectly sums up what the current antagonist system as a whole is, and the type of player that it panders to, and I say currently because if there were separate pvp/pve then it wouldn’t be the case. But as it stands now, contrary to what most developers would do, MS is for some reason catering to toxic trolling and griefing, basically shaping their entire pvp around it.

[XenoBladeX-3]

As a game developer you should never design any aspect of your game specifically with trolling and pissing people off in mind because as it turns out when you piss people off on purpose they stop playing your game and giving you money.

This here is important to highlight because it perfectly sums up what the current antagonist system as a whole is, and the type of player that it panders to, and I say currently because if there were separate pvp/pve then it wouldn’t be the case. But as it stands now, contrary to what most developers would do, MS is for some reason catering to toxic trolling and griefing, basically shaping their entire pvp around it.

how so?

[Placelord]

Because of the nature of 4v1 antags literally cannot compete on equal footing. The rewards for antagging are only worthwhile if you absolutely dominate. You are incentivised to use exploits and dirty tricks in most situations. That's why people say that it is an invitation to trolling.

There are tons of games in which players compete against each other and no one says that the opponent is there just to ruin thier fun and waste thier time. The fact that this is a common impression of this game goes to show that there are foundational flaws here.

My guess is that most asymmetrical competitive games give the enemy player a different skill set and playstyle. But even those games tanked.

[Whitebleidd]

how so?

You have a game that accommodates both PVE and PVP players, but strangely enough it places both types of players into the same pool and does PVE or PVP at random, this is going to piss off PVE players, that is a given and idk how the devs could not see this coming (or they just don’t care, and from watching their own dev diaries, that seems to be most likely the case, idk).

In an old article covering the games antag mode (https://www.dualshockers.com/raiders-broken-planet-developer-diary-details-antagonist-gameplay/) dualshockers very appropriately calls it “a troll's dream come true”, it’s basically like PK’ing players while they quest, fish or craft in an mmo, with no consequences. The devs themselves admit the griefing nature of the system on the 1st dev diary saying this about the antag mode, “Me deja jugar como si fuera un single-player” (it allows me to play it like a single-player), “Y con el extra de que estoy fastidiando a alguien, estoy haciéndole la puñeta a alguien de verdad” (with the added bonus of annoying an actual person, I am fucking over or “causing trouble” to a real person) https://youtu.be/RYao1t08PBc?t=275.

That said, all that would be fine, the concept would be fine if there were simply 2 queues, PVP and PVE or if the game required an antag to start the match since that would make things clear, the game wouldn’t be offering anything for the PVE crowd and that part of the playerbase would simply leave the game. Imo the best choice is ofc having 2 separate queues since, you keep a larger playerbase and PVE players may occasionally dip into PVP matches, when they actually feel like it, respect for the player, for the customer, that is what is lost in this system.

[Level9Drow]

Wow this response really opens up the fact that this game is basically a troll farm. Gather a massive amount of unwilling PvEers and lull them with the illusion of PvE and then allow the game to facilitate invasions at random giving the antag the ability to SEE who they choose and not the other way around at all. Coupled with the overpowered characters in the game right now, like Firm Harecs with Ignis, Tolchock Kons, Legacy Ayana and her buffed hook, etc... you have a recipe for real toxicity.

But to realize that the devs ACTUALLY stated they wanted misery and trolling. I honestly would like to hear them walk back that statement they made. It's a smoking gun. They really want to drive people away.

Mentor matches to weaken a high level player in solo queu, or a few in a 2 man, so the antag can just farm the low levels. They created a game that favors the antag experience. They admit it. And to think the antags whine and whine about not being able to ruin your fun easier. Try being forced to PvP and not having a choice. I almost feel betrayed by this quote they made. I don't feel like this game is going to get any better for raiders at all. Not one bit. With the wolves den that is Discord you can bet MSE will listen to this vocal minority over the droves of players being turned off by antag system.

The sad thing is, thy could have a good PvE based game like Warframe, but it would have a PvP option as well, something Warframe kind of lacks. But they don't want to. I almost feel like it might be poetic justice if they decline in numbers? I mean, I haven't heard ANY good news as a Raider. Just trinkets to take my eyes off the wolves.

As long as I'm able to keep MMR low, I'll stay. If MSE ruins the ability for Raiders/PvEers to keep MMR low, I'm honestly done with this game, unless they give a PvP/PvE option. My only regret at that point will be that I put a lot of money into this game without knowing that they favor Antag and basically sanction my unpleasant experience with an admitted statement.

Honestly. nothing in it for Raiders.

[MSE_Karen]

Hello everyone,

We have answered in another thread since there are similar topics: https://www.spacelordsthegame.com/community/index.php?topic=26542.msg39479;topicseen#msg39479

Thank you!