Author Topic: Tolchok is still broken  (Read 15297 times)

LordDraco3

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Tolchok is still broken
on: October 01, 2018, 08:39:53 PM
So a month after it was adjusted, I fought my first Tolchok again. As a reminder, these are the patch notes:


And I find them completely inadequate.
After finally getting to fight it again, it's still just as obnoxious as ever, it actually feels untouched when you're on the receiving end of it. You can still get stunlocked to death, and it will push constantly from an infinite range. The notes sounded like it wouldn't push beyond 20 meters, but that's not the case at all.

Anyways here was me getting 10 kills in a row before Tolchok killed me. I lost this match. They also had 12% less MMR than I did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVObod3h1Bw
Tolchok killed me a LOT but I still got like 40 kills, despite the MMR difference.

Tekato

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Re: Tolchok is still broken
Reply #1 on: October 01, 2018, 09:15:48 PM
Out of all the broken weapons in this game you want to start with that one lol. Valeria's little girl is a much bigger threat imo with instant down and pushback with ridiculous aoe range.

LordDraco3

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Re: Tolchok is still broken
Reply #2 on: October 01, 2018, 09:23:09 PM
Out of all the broken weapons in this game you want to start with that one lol. Valeria's little girl is a much bigger threat imo with instant down and pushback with ridiculous aoe range.

Can't be used while wounded
Requires timing on the ability and the gun shot
Once gate is placed, Valeria can be flanked because of cooldown on repositioning her ability.

I know you're just being condescending because I posted an antag video and got wrecked by an OP weapon. If I show you a video of me using it AS an antag and decimating a team, would that help change your mind?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv8HQqIjHcI
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 09:29:20 PM by LordDraco3 »

Tekato

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Re: Tolchok is still broken
Reply #3 on: October 01, 2018, 09:33:33 PM
Out of all the broken weapons in this game you want to start with that one lol. Valeria's little girl is a much bigger threat imo with instant down and pushback with ridiculous aoe range.

Can't be used while wounded
Requires timing on the ability and the gun shot
Once gate is placed, Valeria can be flanked because of cooldown on repositioning her ability.

I know you're just being condescending because I posted an antag video and got wrecked by an OP weapon. If I show you a video of me using it AS an antag and decimating a team, would that help change your mind?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv8HQqIjHcI
It's not that hard to get the timing right on little girl or just use the whip. In that mission where you rekt that team the whip/little girl would have just completely stomped them aswell by blocking the bridge path and locking them down with no where to go. Im not saying that weapon isn't op but that there are much more broken things like loath's cookie as well.

Lehi

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Re: Tolchok is still broken
Reply #4 on: October 01, 2018, 09:37:52 PM
On the videos, you were 133 as Konstantin, 254 as Hans. Was Konstantin's really after the nerf? Can you capture another video from a recent invasion?

I do not say Tolchok is not broken now, but your examples are not convincing.

LordDraco3

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Re: Tolchok is still broken
Reply #5 on: October 01, 2018, 11:21:28 PM
On the videos, you were 133 as Konstantin, 254 as Hans. Was Konstantin's really after the nerf? Can you capture another video from a recent invasion?

I do not say Tolchok is not broken now, but your examples are not convincing.

I'm a little confused as to what is being asked? My video when I play Kon was from as soon as I got my hands on the gun once it came out, that was the first game I played using it. It had already received a small damage reduction by the time I got one. I literally killed 3 raiders, while I was wounded, within the first 30 seconds of that match, if you didn't notice. I also stunlocked Harec and Lycus from a totally different platform later on. Close range, long range, it will dominate anything it sets its sights on.

The video with Hans was just this weekend. The only changes to the gun between these videos were outlined in the patch notes posted above. My point is that it is still incredibly overpowered because the push itself has not been fixed. The patch notes basically played around with some numbers but it still pushes constantly at infinite range. You can be right in someone's face going for a finishing blow and it will push you away and kill you.

Angeles2099

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Re: Tolchok is still broken
Reply #6 on: October 02, 2018, 02:40:32 AM
Moral of the story, nobody likes getting pushed?

LordDraco3

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Re: Tolchok is still broken
Reply #7 on: October 02, 2018, 04:50:45 AM
It's literally the push that's the problem. But they..... made it push.... farther????????

Also just had this match vs. Tolchok on No Res. Was about to win it too except at the VERY LAST SECOND the game wasn't letting me jump up to the ledge?? I hope MSE reviews this specific video...
I don't mind losing if someone is just better, but Tolchok is universally hated by the community last I checked. People just stopped talking about it because there's nothing to argue... we all know it's broken. But the most recent patch did nothing to address the reason *why* everyone hates it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnGqg3hlF_I

Skyline

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Re: Tolchok is still broken
Reply #8 on: October 02, 2018, 04:08:45 PM
Push not kill. Tolchok dmg is suck, overheat op,rotation speed average.
If u lose vs tolchok dat is mainly your problem and your disposition and skill issue.
1 vs 1 in open field -agree ,-very hard to deal with. But ALL OTHER SITUTAION,-pls be smarter player :D

ADD:I very much would like that all antagonists there were Konstantines with Tolchok's instead No balls Harek-retards,Rak's or Alicia'ss :)
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 04:12:57 PM by Skyline »

Lehi

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Re: Tolchok is still broken
Reply #9 on: October 02, 2018, 04:29:47 PM

I'm a little confused as to what is being asked? My video when I play Kon was from as soon as I got my hands on the gun once it came out, that was the first game I played using it.

The video with Hans was just this weekend. The only changes to the gun between these videos were outlined in the patch notes posted above. My point is that it is still incredibly overpowered because the push itself has not been fixed.

Simple.
Can you upload a recent video using Kons as an Antag by you?
Rather you whine for a lost game because the Raiders managed to win even if your Hans OP them.

The Kons video of you antagging does not prove your point because the video was taken before the patch in the late August.

Agent-Z46

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Re: Tolchok is still broken
Reply #10 on: October 02, 2018, 09:21:44 PM
I have to agree. A Tolchok is extremely frustrating to deal with. I don't even feel the damage or the push is the problem. It's supposed to do that. But the stunning lock is just too much. There's just nothing you can do the second it gets a shot on you. It can't be countered.

Hiero_Glyph

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Re: Tolchok is still broken
Reply #11 on: October 02, 2018, 09:26:23 PM
I have to agree. A Tolchok is extremely frustrating to deal with. I don't even feel the damage or the push is the problem. It's supposed to do that. But the stunning lock is just too much. There's just nothing you can do the second it gets a shot on you. It can't be countered.

Yeah, it needs a cooldown so that after it procs against a specific enemy it will not proc again for ~8s. That leaves the Konstantine with the choice of either switching to a new target to cause the knockback effect or continuing to damage the current one (w/o being able to cause a knockback).

LordDraco3

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Re: Tolchok is still broken
Reply #12 on: October 02, 2018, 09:32:25 PM

I'm a little confused as to what is being asked? My video when I play Kon was from as soon as I got my hands on the gun once it came out, that was the first game I played using it.

The video with Hans was just this weekend. The only changes to the gun between these videos were outlined in the patch notes posted above. My point is that it is still incredibly overpowered because the push itself has not been fixed.

Simple.
Can you upload a recent video using Kons as an Antag by you?
Rather you whine for a lost game because the Raiders managed to win even if your Hans OP them.

The Kons video of you antagging does not prove your point because the video was taken before the patch in the late August.

I already gave 3 different videos involving Tolchok, not gonna antag with it just to say "look I can still win with it"

Quote
If u lose vs tolchok dat is mainly your problem and your disposition and skill issue.
1 vs 1 in open field -agree ,-very hard to deal with. But ALL OTHER SITUTAION,-pls be smarter player

Normally I just ignore your posts but this time

I posted a video of trying to fight it on No Res, possibly the smallest map in the game. Open maps are actually Tolchok's weakness as it can be flanked from the sides/behind. But when tolchok's victims can only come 1 or 2 directions, it's impossible to advance on Konstantin. Both the video of me using it on Beast Lair proves that, as well as No Res.

It's not that it can't be beaten, but it's unnecessarily powerful in the stunlock department. I don't care if they keep lowering the damage to the single-digits if it's going to stunlock me the moment a bullet touches me. Stunlock isn't fun in any game, it just robs the player of agency and ability to escape or fight back. It's not like I can press a button and get a C-C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER to escape this gun's stunlock. No other push gun in the game is given this much leniency.

I posted about it being OP when I was using and winning with it, and I'm saying it's still just as powerful, it has not been toned down. If you're taking this as a post because I just lost against it, you're probably new and should check my past topics and videos first. It's pretty rare that I have ever asked for nerfs, and I always do it by first showing myself using said broken weapon. I could just as easily equip it myself and just keep wrecking teams, which others have done and posted multiple videos about, but that'd be shitty to keep using a gun that I myself consider unbalanced.

Whitebleidd

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Re: Tolchok is still broken
Reply #13 on: October 03, 2018, 03:34:03 AM
Out of all the broken weapons in this game you want to start with that one lol. Valeria's little girl is a much bigger threat imo with instant down and pushback with ridiculous aoe range.

What?! ppl complaining about little girl… is this serious, both that and earthling are weapons easily countered (flanked) in a pvp situation by most raiders, I expected to hear complaints about whip (although that weapon has a pretty huge cooldown, regular weapon fire is trash and leaves Valeria vulnerable for quite a while).

The hallways or narrow paths that could be an issue if an antag is using whip would also be an issue with many other weapons, or even just abilities, I mean Konstantin as an antag in No Reservations is pretty much broken… just because of his bubble alone, not to mention tolchok. So any issues a weapon like whip can have are more the fault of the stage/enviroment itself imo, while the issues that tolchok has are much more severe and occur with or without the help of the environment.

Skyline

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Re: Tolchok is still broken
Reply #14 on: October 03, 2018, 10:58:14 AM
Stop this planet, we have arrived... to mention Little Girl in subjects about "the broken weapon"...

It in general as it can come to mind ? O_O

That is during firefight the person in a face against Valeria with the established portal, the player has lost melted by projectile in da face...and come to here and write : "Little Girl Op pls help"...ok...this is 2018... everythink is possible .Now i sure.

Considering similar maybe really the author is rights and Tolchok really broken weapon.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 11:23:31 AM by Skyline »