[Marcus4471]

Giving an Antagonist the same rewards as a Raider is a bit of a joke don't you think MSE?
It's 1 versus 4 in reality and the only time the game evens out is when Elite heavies get aleph and either bomb the area or get a shield and grab the raiders.

You should at least have triple the gold, xp and faction award. Even better, if a raider/s are playing for first pot/s of the day you should be getting a large percentage of that, at least 75% of total winnings. And if there happened to be blueprints: common/advanced and rare then they should be yours as well.

No one, in their right mind is going to play as an Antagonist on their pot and dailies.

[Balistic_Martyr]

Being an Antagonist that gets low scores shouldn't scale the same way as a Raider who fails. Especially given the one-chance pots now.  Not to mention it can easily take around six games to get affinity because of the xp cap.

It's a lose-lose situation unless of course you just assume everytime that the Antag sucks for not beating Raiders 1v4  with a 30% difficulty 'assist' and should be punished severely every time.

[MeleeMaster]

No one, in their right mind is going to play as an Antagonist on their pot and dailies.

And they shouldn't, you're already playing the "troll mode", the chance of messing someone's game should be satisfaction enough for you.

You gain nothing for fighting an antagonist, the last thing we need is more reasons for people to play this stupid mode.

[sonofoz]

and yet, this time i do agree with marcus.

moreover, the more he will play antag, the less he will have the opportunity to suicide during raiders missions because it's too hard for him and he want another team.

[Tekato]

No one, in their right mind is going to play as an Antagonist on their pot and dailies.

And they shouldn't, you're already playing the "troll mode", the chance of messing someone's game should be satisfaction enough for you.

You gain nothing for fighting an antagonist, the last thing we need is more reasons for people to play this stupid mode.

It's only going to get worst with the master of puppets update. We'll probably end up with antags in every match due to the heavy emphasis this update has on the antagonist game mode. Now that aleph will be so rare all antags really need to do is get rid of any aleph they get their hands on and it will drastically slow down the raider's mission progress.

[MeleeMaster]

It's only going to get worst with the master of puppets update. We'll probably end up with antags in every match due to the heavy emphasis this update has on the antagonist game mode. Now that aleph will be so rare all antags really need to do is get rid of any aleph they get their hands on and it will drastically slow down the raider's mission progress.

Imagine if they triple the antagonist rewards. This sounds so insane and horrible MSE may actually take it into consideration.

[MSE_Ojuel]

No one, in their right mind is going to play as an Antagonist on their pot and dailies.

And they shouldn't, you're already playing the "troll mode", the chance of messing someone's game should be satisfaction enough for you.

You gain nothing for fighting an antagonist, the last thing we need is more reasons for people to play this stupid mode.

It's only going to get worst with the master of puppets update. We'll probably end up with antags in every match due to the heavy emphasis this update has on the antagonist game mode. Now that aleph will be so rare all antags really need to do is get rid of any aleph they get their hands on and it will drastically slow down the raider's mission progress.

While Aleph deposits will surely need some post-MoP patch tweaking, I'd like to point that our initial approach isn't for them to be "rare" at all. During our in-house play sessions there was a remarkably higher amount of Aleph gems than it used to in pre-MoP builds, so that Raiders can get to share it with other team members and use it during combat as explosive, instead of using it just for mission completion.
That's one of the benefits of unlinking aleph boost poblation from elite spawning, we now have more freedom to tweak missions in fun way.

[MSE_Ojuel]

Giving an Antagonist the same rewards as a Raider is a bit of a joke don't you think MSE?
It's 1 versus 4 in reality and the only time the game evens out is when Elite heavies get aleph and either bomb the area or get a shield and grab the raiders.

You should at least have triple the gold, xp and faction award. Even better, if a raider/s are playing for first pot/s of the day you should be getting a large percentage of that, at least 75% of total winnings. And if there happened to be blueprints: common/advanced and rare then they should be yours as well.

No one, in their right mind is going to play as an Antagonist on their pot and dailies.

I'm afraid I don't get your point of view here. Why is it you feel antagonists have less incentive to play than Raiders when they get similar rewards for the same amount of playing time?

[Marcus4471]

Giving an Antagonist the same rewards as a Raider is a bit of a joke don't you think MSE?
It's 1 versus 4 in reality and the only time the game evens out is when Elite heavies get aleph and either bomb the area or get a shield and grab the raiders.

You should at least have triple the gold, xp and faction award. Even better, if a raider/s are playing for first pot/s of the day you should be getting a large percentage of that, at least 75% of total winnings. And if there happened to be blueprints: common/advanced and rare then they should be yours as well.

No one, in their right mind is going to play as an Antagonist on their pot and dailies.

I'm afraid I don't get your point of view here. Why is it you feel antagonists have less incentive to play than Raiders when they get similar rewards for the same amount of playing time?

Game difficulty for Antagonist is FAR higher than a raider. 1 human + AI does not equal 4 humans. As stated Elites only become a threat with aleph. Tank Turrets can be a problem, helping the antag, but can easily be killed. The only times an Antag really has the same advantage, as a Raider, if not more, are on 'Cat & Mouse' and 'Mind over Matter' with the Beholders. If the creatures start spawning all over the place in 'The Enemy Within', the antag will be on a par with the raiders, but that's rare if you're in a good team. The Destroyer of Worlds is also a mission where unchecked kills on elites who get aleph, will turn the place into a Blitzkreig and shielded grappling elites on a rampage.
You'll pretty much always find antags on these missions. Other ones are really suicide for antags.

[MSE_Ojuel]

Giving an Antagonist the same rewards as a Raider is a bit of a joke don't you think MSE?
It's 1 versus 4 in reality and the only time the game evens out is when Elite heavies get aleph and either bomb the area or get a shield and grab the raiders.

You should at least have triple the gold, xp and faction award. Even better, if a raider/s are playing for first pot/s of the day you should be getting a large percentage of that, at least 75% of total winnings. And if there happened to be blueprints: common/advanced and rare then they should be yours as well.

No one, in their right mind is going to play as an Antagonist on their pot and dailies.

I'm afraid I don't get your point of view here. Why is it you feel antagonists have less incentive to play than Raiders when they get similar rewards for the same amount of playing time?

Game difficulty for Antagonist is FAR higher than a raider. 1 human + AI does not equal 4 humans. As stated Elites only become a threat with aleph. Tank Turrets can be a problem, helping the antag, but can easily be killed. The only times an Antag really has the same advantage, as a Raider, if not more, are on 'Cat & Mouse' and 'Mind over Matter' with the Beholders. If the creatures start spawning all over the place in 'The Enemy Within', the antag will be on a par with the raiders, but that's rare if you're in a good team. The Destroyer of Worlds is also a mission where unchecked kills on elites who get aleph, will turn the place into a Blitzkreig and shielded grappling elites on a rampage.
You'll pretty much always find antags on these missions. Other ones are really suicide for antags.

Sure, but in the other hand you can choose character after the Raiders, you have unlimited spawns, alternative mission victory options, you can now give orders to the AI, you can spy Raiders while you're dead, you can choose your spawn location...etc. The way that I see it, it's as a highly asymmetrical game mode, with both handicaps and advantages.

[Marcus4471]

Giving an Antagonist the same rewards as a Raider is a bit of a joke don't you think MSE?
It's 1 versus 4 in reality and the only time the game evens out is when Elite heavies get aleph and either bomb the area or get a shield and grab the raiders.

You should at least have triple the gold, xp and faction award. Even better, if a raider/s are playing for first pot/s of the day you should be getting a large percentage of that, at least 75% of total winnings. And if there happened to be blueprints: common/advanced and rare then they should be yours as well.

No one, in their right mind is going to play as an Antagonist on their pot and dailies.

I'm afraid I don't get your point of view here. Why is it you feel antagonists have less incentive to play than Raiders when they get similar rewards for the same amount of playing time?

Game difficulty for Antagonist is FAR higher than a raider. 1 human + AI does not equal 4 humans. As stated Elites only become a threat with aleph. Tank Turrets can be a problem, helping the antag, but can easily be killed. The only times an Antag really has the same advantage, as a Raider, if not more, are on 'Cat & Mouse' and 'Mind over Matter' with the Beholders. If the creatures start spawning all over the place in 'The Enemy Within', the antag will be on a par with the raiders, but that's rare if you're in a good team. The Destroyer of Worlds is also a mission where unchecked kills on elites who get aleph, will turn the place into a Blitzkreig and shielded grappling elites on a rampage.
You'll pretty much always find antags on these missions. Other ones are really suicide for antags.

Sure, but in the other hand you can choose character after the Raiders, you have unlimited spawns, alternative mission victory options, you can now give orders to the AI, you can spy Raiders while you're dead, you can choose your spawn location...etc. The way that I see it, it's as a highly asymmetrical game mode, with both handicaps and advantages.

Ojuel,

Yes, I can see all that but humans ALWAYS beat AI in video games. The new commands, an Antag can give really are a waste of time. Giving orders to four grunts means diddly when a good team will annihilate them in seconds. A team of 4 T1 R1 raiders will destroy the equivalent antag. A T1 R1 X 3 team will also. Your new updates aren't doing much. Even if an antag can spawn anywhere there's still 3 seconds or so of antag invulnerability when they spawn a yellowy-orange glow that while the enemy can't attack you, you can't them, but they can SEE you. If antags could instantly reappear behind you, punch, grapple or shoot without invulnerability, on a par with Doldren, then that would give a huge edge, but then it would be very unfair.

Ojuel, the majority don't want an antag. You need to give them a choice or people will walk away. Monitor antag and no antag match figures and see what the overall consensus is and work from there (of course if an antag-no antag choice was given). I think the game is excellent but, truth be told, your updates are not addressing players' concerns and the new aleph update, let alone recent, isn't going to work.

There's an age old adage - "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

[MSE_Ojuel]

Giving an Antagonist the same rewards as a Raider is a bit of a joke don't you think MSE?
It's 1 versus 4 in reality and the only time the game evens out is when Elite heavies get aleph and either bomb the area or get a shield and grab the raiders.

You should at least have triple the gold, xp and faction award. Even better, if a raider/s are playing for first pot/s of the day you should be getting a large percentage of that, at least 75% of total winnings. And if there happened to be blueprints: common/advanced and rare then they should be yours as well.

No one, in their right mind is going to play as an Antagonist on their pot and dailies.

I'm afraid I don't get your point of view here. Why is it you feel antagonists have less incentive to play than Raiders when they get similar rewards for the same amount of playing time?

Game difficulty for Antagonist is FAR higher than a raider. 1 human + AI does not equal 4 humans. As stated Elites only become a threat with aleph. Tank Turrets can be a problem, helping the antag, but can easily be killed. The only times an Antag really has the same advantage, as a Raider, if not more, are on 'Cat & Mouse' and 'Mind over Matter' with the Beholders. If the creatures start spawning all over the place in 'The Enemy Within', the antag will be on a par with the raiders, but that's rare if you're in a good team. The Destroyer of Worlds is also a mission where unchecked kills on elites who get aleph, will turn the place into a Blitzkreig and shielded grappling elites on a rampage.
You'll pretty much always find antags on these missions. Other ones are really suicide for antags.

Sure, but in the other hand you can choose character after the Raiders, you have unlimited spawns, alternative mission victory options, you can now give orders to the AI, you can spy Raiders while you're dead, you can choose your spawn location...etc. The way that I see it, it's as a highly asymmetrical game mode, with both handicaps and advantages.

Ojuel,

Yes, I can see all that but humans ALWAYS beat AI in video games. The new commands, an Antag can give really are a waste of time. Giving orders to four grunts means diddly when a good team will annihilate them in seconds. A team of 4 T1 R1 raiders will destroy the equivalent antag. A T1 R1 X 3 team will also. Your new updates aren't doing much. Even if an antag can spawn anywhere there's still 3 seconds or so of antag invulnerability when they spawn a yellowy-orange glow that while the enemy can't attack you, you can't them, but they can SEE you. If antags could instantly reappear behind you, punch, grapple or shoot without invulnerability, on a par with Doldren, then that would give a huge edge, but then it would be very unfair.

Ojuel, the majority don't want an antag. You need to give them a choice or people will walk away. Monitor antag and no antag match figures and see what the overall consensus is and work from there (of course if an antag-no antag choice was given). I think the game is excellent but, truth be told, your updates are not addressing players' concerns and the new aleph update, let alone recent, isn't going to work.

There's an age old adage - "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

On the spawn thing, you're right. That's why, as I told you, being able to choose where to spawn is a remarkable advantage, since you can hide your materializing form until you finally spawn. When the MOP update kicks in you can even guide AIs while you're in your spirit form, before spawning. :O

We are already monitoring all matches and gathering data from both matches with and without Antagonist, so don't worry about it.

About the Aleph drops/deposits feature, I think we should be faithful to this post's (and this forum) subject and not go completely off topic. There are many other places where Aleph deposits can be discussed when the MOP update gets released.

[Marcus4471]

Ojuel,

There are certain missions I avoid. Cat and Mouse specifically is a hunting ground for Hives and Alicias. If you come up against those two, along with possibly Shae, the favour is overwhelmingly on the antag's side. Other than the other missions mentioned in my previous reply, all others are clearly in favour of tye raiders.

[Whitebleidd]

Ojuel, the majority don't want an antag. You need to give them a choice or people will walk away. Monitor antag and no antag match figures and see what the overall consensus is and work from there (of course if an antag-no antag choice was given).

We are already monitoring all matches and gathering data from both matches with and without Antagonist, so don't worry about it.

I’m guessing Marcus means monitoring AFTER there’s an actual choice, if PVE queues were ever introduced, right now monitoring matches does squat for measuring where the player base leans towards, since there is no choice.

[Level9Drow]

Hey guys, what about giving Raiders more rewards for being invaded? Currently with the reward system as it is now there is no incentive for raiders to look forward to or engage in an antag. I mean, if a squad is smart and really is thinking about progression it would be most practical to surrender right when they get an antag ASAP, because they could make just as much, if not more, in a normal PvE match. Antags CHOOSE PvP and so know the steaks before they choose it and can choose not to do it and Raid instead. Raiders, however, DO NOT choose PvP and therefore get the short end of the stick when it comes to rewards in PvP. Basically when you get invaded you aren't getting anything you couldn't get otherwise out of it. It's really lame.