[Nothu]

G'day

I already wrote a summary of my feelings for the Game and just wanted to Focus on talking about the Grappling.

Grappling is an absurdly strong tool. It kills for free and also adds about 3 seconds of complete invincibility.
While it is counterable by mashing punch in many situations - especially as a Raider - there is no Time to react, or too much going on, to defend against a Grapple.
The Antagonist mostly benefits massively from getting to Grapple a single person because he will stay invincible for so long that it mostly degrades the situation in a Grapple onslaught which most uncoordinated Players are not able to deal with at all.

Personally, I do think that a single successful Grapple gives too many Benefits and would suggest the following Ideas:
1. Only have 1 second of full invincibility and have the Rest be a damage-reductive State (as in around 80% damage mitigation)
2.  Successful Grapple does 50%-75% Dmg and initiates a quick mashing Contest where the Player can survive but will be knocked down on beating the Attacker.

Obviously, that is just my thoughts on the - perceived - Issue. Anybody else thinking that Grapples are too good?

[TehMud]

My thought would be have a mechanic similar to fighting games where if you hit the correct input with the correct timing upon being grappled you can break out of it. However there would need to be more to it than that as otherwise players could just mash the "Grapple Counter" and be safe.

I think a Grapple should kill given its start-up time, lag upon miss, and the fact that it is still 4v1.

As for reduced damage while grappling I'd disagree as a coordinated team could just bait a grapple and focus-fire or any other punishment. Pherhaps speed up the grapple animation so the invulnerable status doesn't last as long. Not really sure atm.

[CosmonautCowboy]

I've been thinkng about the grappling. Yes, it's powerful. However, I think messing with it would throw the game out of balance, and turn it into a brawler with occasional shooting, rather than the hybrid it is now.

Having people engaged in fights of any more length than they are now would ruin the flow of gameplay.

[SoSen]

Coming from experience on both sides  a good grappler can chain 4 grapples and will almost only grapple. With the way the game is now shooting is basically not needed unless I cornered a team at their spawn. I myself have easily 4 chained grapples.
Also the start up time isn't really that long. If you start it up fr behind cover it'll reduce this. Personally just feel the invincibility frames need to be removed the heal should be removed or at least reduced on both accounts, and you shouldn't be able to start the grapple from behind cover. It should be something you use to finish off a guy who's alone or you have cover.

Right now you can grapple a player in front of his whole team with 0 consequences.

Edit: Also to add what's the point of CC shotgun characters when your better off grappling. Just use the shotgun for a stun pre grapple to throw them off , grapple, get your hp back and be invincible.

[Keyixa]

That's true, the shotgun shoots peanuts in comparison to even just the Strikes ALONE, nevermind the crazy strong grapple.

The best idea would be to have the grapple not be a free kill unless the target is injured or has low hp. I can see the devs wanted the  grapple to be more of a Takedown rather than a traditional grapple like in fighting games (Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat) but it would work better if it didn't have this many benefits.

Removing invincibility and having it do like 50/80% of the target's HP or something like that would be better, Maybe have it instantly kill only if the target doesn't notice you, but some characters are always visible, so that's a problem, but it would make the stealth aspect of the game more important that way.

Basically, have the grapple work as a takedown in stealth/enemies unaware and as a finisher in melee combat when the enemies are aware of you. And yea, the invincibility is way too much. Having to watch your teammate get grappled or yourself and not be able to help or get help kinda kills the cooperative aspect.

[TehMud]

My other thought would be before the player is grabbed, if the person trying to grapple is shot with anything that has enough power they are thrown out of it, or if they are just punched. A stray bullet shouldn't throw someone out of a grapple animation, but a shotgun definitely should.

EDIT: Didn't realize there was a parrying mechanic. Is that new?

[CosmonautCowboy]

EDIT: Didn't realize there was a parrying mechanic. Is that new?

No, it's been there since the start of the beta a few weeks back. I haven't been able to use it effectively, I'm hoping to experiment with all the melee combat more this weekend. You'll notice the AI has no problem parrying attacks!