[Level9Drow]

We are not ruining anything, we are just playing the game as it was intended. MSE made this game.  Not us. Do you understand? This was never a just PVE game. If players are coming into this game expecting to only play PVE they are mistaken. That's on them not MSE.

LOL Well by that logic they're playing the game as it was designed as well. They are aiming their character, pointing towards a cliff and hitting the jump button. Over and over. Perhaps the developers shouldn't make this a possibility in their game, as it is possible without hacking or breaking rules to walk off the edge of a cliff, just as it is possible to fight low level players against their will. It's ALL possbible and in the game design.

don't show hypocrassy and say their terrible expeerience with an antag preying on them is invalid because it's agame design when the antag is having a terrible experience because they are using something in the game design.

This is a bit hyperbolic but it's made to negate hiding behid the sheild of "game design". They've figured out a way to ruin your fun that is within the design of the game (they're not cheating), that's part of the game, as you are playing an antagonists to ruin theirs.

 What's sad is that they're just trying to get out of the match, poor sobs, they're not even trying to grief anyone. The delusional Doldren and Harec don't even realize they're guaranteed ro lose, why should anyone suffer for their lack of knowlege?

[LordDraco3]

Oh my god this thread...


PLAYING ANTAGONIST IS NOT "RUINING THE GAME EXPERIENCE FOR OTHER PLAYERS"

ANTAGONIST IS AN INTENDED PART OF PLAYING THE GAME.

TEAMMATES THROWING MATCHES IS NOT PART OF NORMAL GAMEPLAY.

Whitebleidd
Hiero_Glyph
Tekato (didn't you quit?)
Level9Drow

You are some of the worst, most toxic players in this entire community.
You infect this forum and are legitimately defending ruining other player's games and comparing that to the same thing as having antagonists in the game, which are 100% a fact of life for a 4v1 PvEvP.

Through inspecting the game files, MSE has already coded perma-ban messages into the game. I will list them for you since you guys can't get it through your thick skulls that 1-3 players wasting lives and intentionally killing their own team IS NOT THE SAME as (or even in the ballpark of) an antagonist existing in the game.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanSuicide    Because of your repeated suicides in multiplayer matches, ignoring our warnings, we are forced to suspend your user account permanently.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanAbandon    Because you repeatedly quit in-progress multiplayer matches, ignoring our warnings, we are forced to suspend your user account permanently.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanBadBehaviour    Because of your repeated misbehavior in multiplayer matches, ignoring our warnings, we are forced to suspend your user account permanently.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanBot    We have confirmed the use of external software from your account with the intention of modifying certain game parameters. We are thus forced to suspend your user account permanently.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanCheat    You have modified the normal operation of the game, affecting the experience of the rest of the players and forcing us to suspend your user account permanently.

Antagonist mode always has been a main part of this 4v1 PvEvP game. Your constant, daily, wining, and putting down of antagonist players, literally equating them to the same as animal abusers and assuming anyone who partakes in such a mode is some kind of twisted individual, just make YOU look bad. I know for a fact I'm not the only one sick of this crap. It's time to stop.

[Level9Drow]

Then feed, man. Pretend you're engaged in fighting the antagonists? You want them to pretend I guess. The next adjustment players will do in order to avoid getting banned for getting out of an unfair unfun situation would be to feed. I mean, they could just suck as a player a lot and always try to fight the elites and antag, and for some reason don't know how to attack as frequently. I mean, is this any better? They will just find other ways to get out of the game ASAP. Blaming the victims of a broken system is pretty shitty.

People don't like antagonists, they like progression and PvE. MSE doesn't reward enough for lost games, it becomes a waste of time.

EDIT: that was a pretty cool way to post with Kenishiro. I have to give you kudos, that post brought a smile.

[Agent-Z46]

Then feed, man. Pretend you're engaged in fighting the antagonists? You want them to pretend I guess. The next adjustment players will do in order to avoid getting banned for getting out of an unfair unfun situation would be to feed. I mean, they could just suck as a player a lot and always try to fight the elites and antag, and for some reason don't know how to attack as frequently. I mean, is this any better? They will just find other ways to get out of the game ASAP. Blaming the victims of a broken system is pretty shitty.

People don't like antagonists, they like progression and PvE. MSE doesn't reward enough for lost games, it becomes a waste of time.

Draco couldn't have worded it any more perfectly. It's toxic behavior, plain and simple. You're no victim, you're the problem. You're the one's encouraging toxic behavior and ruining the game for everyone. Draco points out your toxicity and that there's punishments for it and your response is "Well I'll be clever about my toxicity"

[Level9Drow]

The options would be to espress your feedback on the forums or... give feedback on the game in the wider community abroad? I think it's better to keep the criticism here rather than trashing it on other game ofrums. People like this game and so don't want to complain where the broader public can see. If we can get the issued addressed here without people who haven't played the game yet hearing the issues then that's better.

If you want people to leave the game, then they're going to be really pissed that they invested money and then they're going to have a lot of bad things to say about a terrific game. This is not a desired outcome those who like this game want.

[SniffaXxX]

If you throw matches, you’re a POS. End of discussion.

[LordDraco3]

You talk all the time about players "ruining the experience for other players" but are one of the first to defend 2 players killing a match for 2 others, one of them being a level 1, where this is likely their first experience with the game. Tolchok kon on Low Blow is indeed a tough match. Not impossible, but tough.

I don't remember the antags that beat me. I will always remember the players that pull this kinda crap on me though. Just exit the match and take the time out. When I had a higher level player back when I was new try to surrender at the start of a HBaT game with a mikah antag, they left, and the 2 newbies also left, leaving me alone to solo the mission as Loaht against Mikah.
And I rocked that shit. I got Lycus to the end of the platform. Before that higher level player (Jenny Frost) reconnected, and one of the newbies, and they both hit surrender, forcing a loss. I'd much rather have just fought hard as Loaht and take my loss, than other players overriding my autonomy.
I encountered Jenny later on when I antagged after Hades came out, and they messaged me accusing me of hacking because I won. lolololol.

I come to play the game. I don't care about farming or rewards or whatever. That's ultimately how we progress, but it's secondary to having fun. I didn't get rewards as antag back before Hades and I antagged a lot even back then, because it was fun.
I solo play as antag, I'll solo or duo play as raider if I'm forced to because my teammates are too weak to even *try* fighting against an antagonist, or *try* carrying a level 1. But when those teammates are trying their hardest to sabotage the team, they can fuck right off.

[Level9Drow]

Then feed, man. Pretend you're engaged in fighting the antagonists? You want them to pretend I guess. The next adjustment players will do in order to avoid getting banned for getting out of an unfair unfun situation would be to feed. I mean, they could just suck as a player a lot and always try to fight the elites and antag, and for some reason don't know how to attack as frequently. I mean, is this any better? They will just find other ways to get out of the game ASAP. Blaming the victims of a broken system is pretty shitty.

People don't like antagonists, they like progression and PvE. MSE doesn't reward enough for lost games, it becomes a waste of time.

Draco couldn't have worded it any more perfectly. It's toxic behavior, plain and simple. You're no victim, you're the problem. You're the one's encouraging toxic behavior and ruining the game for everyone. Draco points out your toxicity and that there's punishments for it and your response is "Well I'll be clever about my toxicity"

I vehemently dissagree. Simple as that.

You're just so empowered aren't you? You got the "law" on your side to support your griefing, good for you. We just need to accept our losing games and poor rewards, it's not the fault of poor design at all. Nothing ever could be, right? Because that would be impossible.

Let's say people simmer down here and you and Draco convince them to stop. They are irritated and calm down and go back and play their game. What in the world do you think will happen when another person get's a mentor mach with low level players and an antag? What are they going to do? What will they do when they fight tooth and nail with a person given the position of preventing progression in an already slow grind for 30 munites or more only to lose and feel like they A) Wasted their time, B) Was fooled in trusting the system to reward them for fighting an antag, and C) They're going to remember WHY they came to these forums in the first place. And remember that nothing you've suggested helped their situation at all. you offer NO solution to the problem.

So they will come back here and vent it out because they're not quite sure they want to stop playing the game, because they actually like a lot about it. And NEW people will come as well. We see them. Not even "the usuals", who say the SANE thing. Are you going to tell every single new person who complains about the antagonists system it's their fault as well? How many people will have to dislike the system until you think there could actually be a problem?

For the record: I didn't say I condone this behavior. I said I don't BLAME them and understand why. So get the fuck of my balls with this toxic acusation of supporting thier actions.

[Whitebleidd]

You can call me toxic all you want, it’s the only way of ending FORCED pvp matches as efficient and quick as possible, and yea I encourage any pve player to do it, under normal circumstances (most games in general) I would agree throwing a match is something that shouldn’t be done, but in this game there are scenarios where its fine, such as antag invasions.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanSuicide    Because of your repeated suicides in multiplayer matches, ignoring our warnings, we are forced to suspend your user account permanently.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanAbandon    Because you repeatedly quit in-progress multiplayer matches, ignoring our warnings, we are forced to suspend your user account permanently.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanBadBehaviour    Because of your repeated misbehavior in multiplayer matches, ignoring our warnings, we are forced to suspend your user account permanently.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanBot    We have confirmed the use of external software from your account with the intention of modifying certain game parameters. We are thus forced to suspend your user account permanently.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanCheat    You have modified the normal operation of the game, affecting the experience of the rest of the players and forcing us to suspend your user account permanently.

Easy to circumvent, like drow said at that point just start feeding…

[Level9Drow]

Listen, look at optional PvP this way. All the players that irritate you will go there and not bother your antaging.

[Level9Drow]

You can call me toxic all you want, it’s the only way of ending FORCED pvp matches as efficient and quick as possible, and yea I encourage any pve player to do it, under normal circumstances (most games in general) I would agree throwing a match is something that shouldn’t be done, but in this game there are scenarios where its fine, such as antag invasions.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanSuicide    Because of your repeated suicides in multiplayer matches, ignoring our warnings, we are forced to suspend your user account permanently.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanAbandon    Because you repeatedly quit in-progress multiplayer matches, ignoring our warnings, we are forced to suspend your user account permanently.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanBadBehaviour    Because of your repeated misbehavior in multiplayer matches, ignoring our warnings, we are forced to suspend your user account permanently.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanBot    We have confirmed the use of external software from your account with the intention of modifying certain game parameters. We are thus forced to suspend your user account permanently.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanCheat    You have modified the normal operation of the game, affecting the experience of the rest of the players and forcing us to suspend your user account permanently.

Easy to circumvent, like drow said at that point just start feeding…

Listen I'm not even saying this should be done, it shouldn't. What I'm saying is that there shouldn't be a system that makes normally freindly non-toxic players feel they NEED to do this. I am saying that I can see how they will work around it. I'm NOT saying, "Ha Ha, I know how they can get around this." That's not the case.

[LordDraco3]

What in the world do you think will happen when another person get's a mentor mach with low level players and an antag? What are they going to do?

Play. They might win, might lose. Everyone acts like losing is the worst thing ever, or that winning is impossible.

I've played enough games to know that it's anyone's game, you never know who will pull out a win. As antag, I've made 50+ kills and still lost (just this month, on In Medias Res even!). I've fought entire teams that were lv 80 or below, when I'm 250, and lost. As raider, I've lost games to a level 10 antag, 2/3 times, when our combined Raider levels were over 1000 levels over the antag. I've solo carried teams of 3 babies. I've won as antag despite Raiders refilling their lives on Uras' final health bar, which is one of the hardest maps to win as antag.

I've had an antag game on Upside Down that lasted probably an hour until I won, and it was the most fun match I've ever played. The Raiders I messaged after, that lost a BP roll AND bought lives, were not salty in the least, we all agreed it was a fun and hard-fought match all around.

You never know what's going to happen, and assuming you're just gonna lose because you have a baby Harec and are fighting an antag shows you do not have confidence that you can overcome hardships. We *always* played with low levels before Spacelords. Now MSE thought they would give us a notification and an extra reward for playing with them, and the collective response has been a big giant middle finger shoved in their faces by much of the community. It sounds like a certain set of players just want everything to be a cakewalk.

Yeah rewards can be better. The game is ever-changing. Rewards have only gone up since I started playing, back when they were truly the lowest of the low and everything cost a fortune. But that argument is neither here nor there when the issue is player behavior.

[LordDraco3]

I named 4 of you here that are of like mind. Why not just team up and you can surrender vs. antags to your heart's content? Unless there's cross-platform preventing that, which would be understandable (but guilds are coming soon that will fix that! )

I don't care what a 4 stack does, play how you want. My team does it, lots of teams do it. Managing MMR is an issue that unfortunately needs a workaround. If you don't wanna play a certain setup, that'd on a team to decide. The issue here is that you guys have no problems ruining games when you get matched up with randoms. 
And I know for a fact some of you here do it with randoms because you get name dropped in discord when it happens if they get matched with you. I am just fed up with the hypocrisy at this point.

[Whitebleidd]

Play. They might win, might lose. Everyone acts like losing is the worst thing ever, or that winning is impossible.

We are talking about ppl throwing matches, I don’t think winning is entirely the issue here, but yea I can only speak for myself, a least that’s not the issue for me.

I've had an antag game on Upside Down that lasted probably an hour until I won, and it was the most fun match I've ever played.

That sounds absolutely terrible, that would have been a last match of the day for me for sure, this here is exactly why we need a non-invasion option, you may find that fun but damn would I have considered that an abysmal match.

[Agent-Z46]

Then feed, man. Pretend you're engaged in fighting the antagonists? You want them to pretend I guess. The next adjustment players will do in order to avoid getting banned for getting out of an unfair unfun situation would be to feed. I mean, they could just suck as a player a lot and always try to fight the elites and antag, and for some reason don't know how to attack as frequently. I mean, is this any better? They will just find other ways to get out of the game ASAP. Blaming the victims of a broken system is pretty shitty.

People don't like antagonists, they like progression and PvE. MSE doesn't reward enough for lost games, it becomes a waste of time.

Draco couldn't have worded it any more perfectly. It's toxic behavior, plain and simple. You're no victim, you're the problem. You're the one's encouraging toxic behavior and ruining the game for everyone. Draco points out your toxicity and that there's punishments for it and your response is "Well I'll be clever about my toxicity"

I vehemently dissagree. Simple as that.

You're just so empowered aren't you? You got the "law" on your side to support your griefing, good for you. We just need to accept our losing games and poor rewards, it's not the fault of poor design at all. Nothing ever could be, right? Because that would be impossible.

Let's say people simmer down here and you and Draco convince them to stop. They are irritated and calm down and go back and play their game. What in the world do you think will happen when another person get's a mentor mach with low level players and an antag? What are they going to do? What will they do when they fight tooth and nail with a person given the position of preventing progression in an already slow grind for 30 munites or more only to lose and feel like they A) Wasted their time, B) Was fooled in trusting the system to reward them for fighting an antag, and C) They're going to remember WHY they came to these forums in the first place. And remember that nothing you've suggested helped their situation at all. you offer NO solution to the problem.

So they will come back here and vent it out because they're not quite sure they want to stop playing the game, because they actually like a lot about it. And NEW people will come as well. We see them. Not even "the usuals", who say the SANE thing. Are you going to tell every single new person who complains about the antagonists system it's their fault as well? How many people will have to dislike the system until you think there could actually be a problem?

For the record: I didn't say I condone this behavior. I said I don't BLAME them and understand why. So get the fuck of my balls with this toxic acusation of supporting thier actions.

To quote you when I first came to the forums "It doesn't matter if you disagree" throwing is toxic behavior, whether you admit it or not, that's not gonna change. You then go on to say that you don't condone this behavior but I've seen you admit and celebrate the fact that you've thrown!  Not only that but in this very thread you put forward the idea of feeding to avoid punishment for intentionally killing yourself. So don't try to tell me you don't condone this behavior, you not only condone it, you encourage and even practice it. This is always you're argument when someone calls out your bullshit. "You're offering no solution to the problem" You're offering nothing but tantrums and excuses. Losing a game to someone who outplayed you is not a real problem. The problem is you and other players like you. You whine and whine about Antags, say they're trolls and killing the community but then you're perfectly fine with people throwing and ruining the game for everyone, Antagonist and Raiders, alike.