[KamikaZSquirrel]

First I want to start by saying I saw this game when it was called "Raiders of the Broken Planet" and it looked quite interesting. I didn't get the game then and those reasons are an entirely different subject but as it's remarket to "SpaceLords" and offered as a free game I jumped at the chance to give it a go.
I believe the developers from MercurySteam have done a great job of it in many ways, it indeed takes time to get used to and glad Antagonist takes until level 10 to be available so at least players get a feel for it before being the enemy.

That being said I am new on xbox one with my username here as my gamertag and have enjoyed it since I started playing 4 days ago. I am level 17 about to reach 18 and since I reached level 11 and could contribute to The Aequilibrium Wars I've tried out antagonising as much as I can and feel it works well but definitely still needs tweaking and here's a few ideas how and brief reasons why.

1) Make every mission have an antagonist no matter what. I don't know why this isn't a thing already but it should be. Reason being that it's advertised as a 4v1 shooter so that rogue element should always be present, sometimes it won't be a player because the game can't find an antagonist so a comparable A.I. should be in every match.

2) Antagonist does need a slight buff to their damage resistance, especially if your level is 40+ below your opponents, getting hit from a strike from one is a death sentence because you lose too much health and can't evade or react to it. Let alone trying to make an entire team lose 16+ lives.

3) Antagonist also NEEDS additional objectives especially in circumstances like #2, if you can't kill your opponent then a couple of extra objectives could make it more fun as an antagonist and for lower levelled ones more fair. This should be a MUST for boss levels with antagonist objectives being harder to match that of fighting a boss, I'm yet to face one on a boss level but having to defend yourself from an antagonist AND fight a boss when their objective is to just kill your team... seems too easy and not fun to me.

4) Give each mission an option to be a specific antagonist choice, like on shock it should be Kuzman and anyone playing on that mission as an antagonist should get bonus rewards for sticking to the mission character as a trade off from picking a counter. Also gives new players a chance to try the character out before they earn them so when they do, they're going to be more efficient as them in ALL other missions.

These are my most contributive thoughts and would love to know what players think and if possible Devs tooX

[J-Wji]

I agree the antagonist system should stay. I saw this advertised on the PS Store as a 4v1 game and that's why I downloaded it.

I enjoy the antagonist system, both playing and playing against. The main issues people have with it, such as high level antags ruining the game, is down to the low playerbase. However that's not to say there can't be improvements.

What would be a nice change would be when there's an antagonist, cortex is unable to refuel for more aleph, however the antagonist has limited lives too. This would take away that awful feeling of finally killing them 16+ times only to have 30 seconds to kill each of them again before they get ALL her lives back.

Give antagonists a use for the aleph they get. I understand the whole aleph boost mechanic at 5 stacks but during missions where the raiders need to use aleph if they manage to sneak melee kill you, they get a max stack of aleph for their objective. It just feels like you have to suicide to lose it just so they don't get it. Giving antags a counter-use for the aleph they get would make these missions more enjoyable.

[Eikazuya]

Respawn Timer increases as Antagonist's deaths increases.

[PohtHehd]

This has been discussed into the goddamn ground. I can easily point out where your arguments are flawed in a myriad ways using information that has been synthesized by the many MANY MANY MANY people who have said these EXACT same things.

Check it out.

Number 1; there are not always going to be antagonists within your MMR/difficulty rating so this is kind of a ridiculous demand. This MIGHT be how Aurora Specters will work, strong AI opponent above the normal guys. But..come on. Not every match is going to have an antagonist and that is..just fine. Not everyone wants to antagonize all the time.

Number 2; No, antagonist does not need a buff. If you are antagonizing below level 150, which is when passive stats max out, then you have failed to grasp the meaning of the antagonist system. What they need is not for the AI to be totally gimped when they enter a match.

Number 3; Also, nope. Such a thing would be very very easy to exploit and matches where people are being decimated by an antagonist you can at least easily identify WHY you're losing. If there were these other weird secret objectives for the antagonist then new players would be even MORE baffled as to why they lost.

Number 4; is so silly it made me realize I just wasted a lot of time responding to this. What the fuck does it matter if there is a specific antagonist or not? Seriously, what the hell? This is a really..strange and not well thought out idea.

Why should we reward people for NOT understanding the meta?

Also, respawn timer increase for antagonist? I don't think you've ever been in a situation where the Raiders can just spawn camp you. If it increased every time then in just a few minutes your respawn timer would be so long you may as well not play the game.

There are definitely some tweaks that antagonist need but these are not it.  Not even close.

[LordDraco3]

Ahhhh, FINALLY a "mandatory antag" suggestion post to counter balance the scores of "make antag "optional" posts

But yeah, antags don't need a buff. As poht pointed out, the AI is what needs correct balancing. When they become dumb as rocks and die to a slight breeze, then it doesn't matter how strong an antagonist is, they will struggle. Likewise, if AI have 800 health and strike for 135 dmg per punch, the dumbest crappiest antag will win. The issue here is it needs to be balanced appropriately so that they are a fair threat and distraction to keep the raiders from simply dog-piling antags as soon as they spawn.

I get the point of the post. Other 4v1 games require the 4v1 to happen in order to have a game. Can't play DBD without a killer and 4 survivors, that's the balance. Can't play Friday 13th without Jason and campers. Can't play Evolve without a monster and hunters, that's the balance. But this game is objective based for the raiders side, not straight pvp. Think of it like you're suggesting Dark Souls shouldn't be playable without an invader in every single zone, which would be silly.
 
Also people already complain about needing 4 players to start, requiring 5 with 1 of them being in the antag slot would cause even more salt. I always antag, and I enjoy it, but lots of people don't. It already takes much longer to find a game if I'm a survivor in Dead by Daylight, but being a killer almost instantly scores me a match.... literally the opposite of Raiders as far as queue times, but for the same reason, people like to play the 4, not the 1.

Respawn Timer increases as Antagonist's deaths increases.

No.

[Ac3_f4ce]

Wow never thought id see one of these posts. I like the support for the Antagonist.  But the game is already unbalanced as is. And your tipping it further towards the Antagonist side. 

Real quick Antagonist re-spawn time is 14 seconds. Unless you force raiders to pay gold to restore there lives. Then its about 6 seconds.

Antags not being on every board actually makes the game more fun. It makes the game chaotic. And like Draco said it would increase wait times.

Antags destroying Rookie players is not good for the game in the long run. Mentor matches shouldnt have Antags on them. That  being said there should always be a chance for an antag to invade a mission except if you find yourself in a mentor match.

And finally there are other thing Antags can do to mess with Raiders. some missions have mechanics to slow progress. Some examples; Low blow you can pull the levers to reverse progress. Weapon from the past you can steal the sphere and also replenish the Squid bots energy with Aleph. Short fused you can shoot the bombs.

They should include some other stuff you can do to mess with Raiders on other missions but again it needs to be balanced.

[KamikaZSquirrel]

This has been discussed into the goddamn ground. I can easily point out where your arguments are flawed in a myriad ways using information that has been synthesized by the many MANY MANY MANY people who have said these EXACT same things.

Check it out.

Number 1; there are not always going to be antagonists within your MMR/difficulty rating so this is kind of a ridiculous demand. This MIGHT be how Aurora Specters will work, strong AI opponent above the normal guys. But..come on. Not every match is going to have an antagonist and that is..just fine. Not everyone wants to antagonize all the time.

Number 2; No, antagonist does not need a buff. If you are antagonizing below level 150, which is when passive stats max out, then you have failed to grasp the meaning of the antagonist system. What they need is not for the AI to be totally gimped when they enter a match.

Number 3; Also, nope. Such a thing would be very very easy to exploit and matches where people are being decimated by an antagonist you can at least easily identify WHY you're losing. If there were these other weird secret objectives for the antagonist then new players would be even MORE baffled as to why they lost.

Number 4; is so silly it made me realize I just wasted a lot of time responding to this. What the fuck does it matter if there is a specific antagonist or not? Seriously, what the hell? This is a really..strange and not well thought out idea.

Why should we reward people for NOT understanding the meta?

Also, respawn timer increase for antagonist? I don't think you've ever been in a situation where the Raiders can just spawn camp you. If it increased every time then in just a few minutes your respawn timer would be so long you may as well not play the game.

There are definitely some tweaks that antagonist need but these are not it.  Not even close.

I had assumed there were other posts but I went through ALL the topics in suggestions and NOTHING close to what I'm saying here so figured why not mention it... sorry it upset you so much =p

#1 isn't silly, not even close but unfortunately you missed my point a little.. Aurora spectres might be what I was suggesting but no info about them isn't really useful to know what's coming. As I said this is advertised as a "new" take on 4v1 shooters and so far it's done really well but the game suffers from an identity crisis because it's not ALWAYS a 4v1 so even an AI antagonist at least has to be present in ANY form.

#2 you fight 4 raiders and against a coordinated team you might as well not even try.. I don't know how you can counter that outside an objective for antags, I didn't know you could pull levers to stop progress in missions (thanks Ace) that should be in the tutorial...

#3 I see your point clearly and in your point yeah it wouldn't work..
 
#4 re read it... It seems players find antagonistic play less rewarding so the option of having a character set to each mission gives players bonus rewards IF they play that character at the drawback of not picking a direct counter to what raiders are present... plus by doing so antagonists can play as characters prior to farming gold and levels to unlock them, you know those situations you see a "noob"  pick a hero and you see they could of only just unlocked them so have no experience so you shake your head?? Much like the discussions on Harec being a bad starting character, that is the point of my idea, experience and a bonus reward for doing it. Wait! There's a Meta?!? F*&@ me! Of course there is.... God forbid you can't play against that.. that's the problem with PvP mentality, if it is less effective it can't work but it proves there's a lack of balance and in need of work to make all options viable (which they are). I manage fine as a raider and antagonist with what I have minus a few bad situations and I don't play to a Meta and refuse to and to be honest I have a lot of fun doing it and if more people tried to they might also enjoy it more =) .
Sorry for the sarcasm but you should see my point.

Respawn timer wasn't doing that for me, most I was waiting was 12 seconds and I was being camped by Ayanna so I have been there, it's just not true sorry.

Thanks everyone for taking time to read and respond and pointing out flaws in my thoughts and adding to suggestions that would add to.the enjoyment of being a rogue element =) I also enjoy being a raider a lot too!

[PohtHehd]

Not all discussions take place on these forums.

And it doesn't make me upset but when someone says they are level 20 or below then goes on to make a bunch of feedback on a system they cannot possibly have fully experienced yet, that is what gets me going.

The ideas of a buff to antagonist, antagonist's appearance in matches being increased or decreased and having extra objectives that the antagonist can fulfill to force a win, which actually are already in the game for some missions, have been around for awhile.

The respawn timer comment was not directed at you and I didn't say it does increase. The third poster, Eikazyua, mentioned that as a change they would like to see. I was questioning them if they had ever been spawn camped before and if they hadn't then they truly don't know how much that will fuck the game.

Not to mention that tactics such as delaying a mission in order to coax the antagonist out to kill them would start popping up. I mean, people already do that to try and stack Aleph. But now they can increase your respawn timer too? Psh, come on now.

I didn't miss your point about the first. An AI antagonist would have to be given some pretty solid amount of work by the developers. Seems like a waste of time when there are plenty of antagonists to go around.

Sometimes the matchmaking WON'T give you an antagonist even if there is one in your MMR that is queued because the design of the game is to make them less of a constant threat. It is more mysterious and cool that you don't know if there will be an antagonist or not. Some people don't like antagonists at all and it pleases them when there isn't one around.

If I always knew to expect an antagonist then I would just pick missions where they have the disadvantage, like boss stages.

And back to the fourth, I just don't see how it is necessary. People will want to pick the character they like and offering a bonus to pick a character they might not want to play will just make people wonder why the bonus isn't simply applied to them irrespective of their antagonist choice.

Welcome to the game.

[flowone]

The thing is that some of the stuff you want already exist in the game but on certain maps / progression points. So, it's spotty I guess. You should try to play around that fact, but having more options to mess with Raiders other than flat out killing them would be nice.

The buff I'm on the fence. In the early days I would agree with you but now since I'm closing in on level 140, with my knowledge, passive points, and weapons, not so much. I've been able to consistently win against high level players the higher level I got. Maybe give lower level players a boost but honestly it's something you learn to overcome and will with more levels. Im 132, and I've beaten teams of 200+ from overpowering them, to outsmarting them in melee, to screwing with them (even when they were constantly killing me) to run out timers.

Honestly, Antag is only possible to those who really, really, really know this game. You know everything about every map, you know the raiders and typical strategies they do, and you fully, FULLY, understand the stress, melee, and movement system. And you have to be a sneaky asshole or an aggressive asshole. I've played against some good and bad antags, and the bad ones play so horribly that they would get destroyed on any 3rd person game. Good Antags take advantage of weak positioning, bad coverage, Rambo players who don't have the skills to consistently win 1v1s, Mob spawns. Antag victories are earned, you don't have a lvl 300 trying to power rush the objective while you stand still, shoot, miss every shot, and do nothing. Honestly, they should stay that way.

[Zopheyron]

antagonists can completely destroy easilly a whole game only to stay in missions in the wrong place (for players). some missions are extremely difficult if an antagonist is in. a well played game, completely destroyed at the end just because the antagonist is lucky.
by the way one thing that we can do is to insert, "at least", a double respawn time for suicides of antagonist.
some missions, for example the Ayana recluit one, are extremely difficult with an antagonist, mostly if the antagonist can make a suicide with five aleph charges..