[PraxxtorCruel]

I have unfortunately quit the game as its no longer for me.

Boy, you should have lead with that.

It doesnt mean my issues with the game are no longer valid. After all im not the only one mentioning it. Why do you think im on the forums conveying my frustration? I like the game but there are some serious balance issues.

[PraxxtorCruel]

Hi everyone!

Our intention when we created this new system was being honest with the player. We want to first show him or her the nature of Spacelords. That means cooperate together using all your resources to complete a mission and defeating the Antagonist.

Once the player understands the mechanics, he/she can enjoy the training mode and practice to improve his/her stats. I know we have said this many times, but the core of Spacelords is the Antagonist feature and we would love for all the players to experience it, at least once.

You really expect players to stick around until they understand the mechanics to fully enjoy the game when it is nothing but infuriating with an antag invasion that leads to absolute hopelessness and then noobs in mentor matches who cant even dent an enemy due to their low level. Seriously?
Since i joined this game about a month back, almost every antagonist match the raider team was wiped out. When an antag joins its either solely focus on the antag to stand a chance or get annihilated trying to complete mission objective. That is not fun. I dont see where the developers are getting their data that the antag system is actually balanced. I find the game overwhelmingly favours antags and you dont even need to be good to defeat a team of raiders. Melee is so ridiculously overpowered to the point that my experience of antag matches is that most solely rely on that and it works. My experience has been nothing but negative anytime an antag joins. If anything you the developers will spout about how great your antag system is but if so why not add optional antag invasion with increased rewards?. Thats right you wont because barely anyone would actually opt for an antag invasion. Ive been in countless lame antag matches and mid-high level players completely give up just wanting the match to end by surrendering so they can play a PVE match with a team of raiders. I feel as if you guys are completely out of touch. The core gameplay is great but even that cant overcome the frustrations that i have with this game. Theres a reason a game with great gameplay like this is not doing as well as it could. Lastly you are driving away countless amount of beginners because you dont make the mentor matches easier. 75%  of the time the noob quits midway cause the mobs are too difficult for them.

You have to realize that while you might make the excuse that if 4 raiders stick together they can overpower an antag and win that doesnt actually happen. Youve based the antag system on 4 raiders banding together to fight the antag with support of his AI companions and at times mission objectives with time limits that further complicate things and expect the team of 4 raiders to manage it? You forgot the most important problem. Players dont stick together and sure as hell dont work together consisting of a bunch of randoms. If friendly fire was on they would probably kill each other regularly.

Hey there, My name's is Hernan and I'm a technical game designer working on the game.

What Karen commented--putting new players into real co-op matches instead of single player matches--, is a decision we made taking into account data we've been gathering from players' matches over the last year.

Just like you, we believe players' first matches are really important, but one must not forget they should also work as an honest display of what the game's about, including its assymetric semi-competitive nature.

About the whole Antagonist issue, we will be releasing a new State of the Game soon. We'll be sharing some of the data we've been collecting, and explaining to you guys some of the whys and hows of the system. I hope that clears some of your concerns.

Hey Hernan. Want to start of by saying that you and your team made a great game. There are just some things that i feel hold the game back as ive explained. I will be eagerly awaiting news on the game.

[Urgehal]

Oy vey. I understand peoples frustrations with the Antagonist system it can be broken at times. But please tell me how is it other players have such a hard time dealing with an Antag and i dont? How is it my games are so different from theirs that they would call for the Antagonist system to be removed or made optional? But before you answer let me give you a little insight on how i play the game.

When i jump on Spacelords I check to see what Bps are available and which ones have very high gold and faction rewards.  I play as a raider when try to obtain my daily rewards and when completed ill switch up and play as an Antag for a few games. I run in to my fair share antags. I win some i lose some, but i have a good time. I get that some of the player base doesnt like PVP but its not like they arent skilled players. So what reason could you give me other than "you dont like PVP" to get rid of the Antagonist system.

Further more Every person that dislikes both the Antgonist system and mentor matches only wishes to  get rid of it by making it possible to opt out of both. Yet they never offer up any solutions to try and fix the current system. Half these problems could be solved with a solid form of communication between players. The prompt system doesnt work. If players (both vet and rookie) could communicate more clearly, coordinating against antags and teaching rookies would be so much easier.

Snip

Only thing that's rough when you begin the game against antags is jack diddly for rewards and wasted time. That's what irked me back when I first started playing and what I feel for newer players today.

That being said, everyone is different. I love the gameplay so much, I didn't mind (most of the time) getting my ass kicked by antags. And it honestly made me a much better player. Not only helps being better against antags obviously, but also the PvE. It really sharpens your awareness and your ability to carry. As for as advantages/disadvantages in PvE, there are ALOT of variables that make that up, player level is just a small part of that. The game not being newbie friendly may not be good on MSE part to the sell the game, but it being a positive or negative is subjective. It's niche title anyway...

As for as folks quitting on sight when an antagonist shows up...don't know if it's a PC/XBox thing, but I play on PS4 and am level 168 and I have only seen that happen like 3 or 4 times through my playtime (and one of them is someone on this forum, who won't be named, but is a level 300+. You should be ashamed of yourself  ). But your mileage may vary I guess...

I'm not opposed to antags being optional, but that would mean less games for antags. I don't play antag personally, but if I did, that pissed me off. Since I don't, I have no strong feelings, but the PvP folk would have every right to get mad ... My personal opinion is to just penalize players a portion of their rewards who opt out of antag. Tier 5 (LV 1-19) won't get penalized, but after that penalty will be steeper the farther the tier.

For now, like I suggest to every anti-antag person, find a group on reddit, discord, gamefaqs, etc who feel the same as you do and squad up. You'll queue matches much faster and you can all surrender when an antag shows up.

[Tekato]

Oy vey. I understand peoples frustrations with the Antagonist system it can be broken at times. But please tell me how is it other players have such a hard time dealing with an Antag and i dont? How is it my games are so different from theirs that they would call for the Antagonist system to be removed or made optional? But before you answer let me give you a little insight on how i play the game.

When i jump on Spacelords I check to see what Bps are available and which ones have very high gold and faction rewards.  I play as a raider when try to obtain my daily rewards and when completed ill switch up and play as an Antag for a few games. I run in to my fair share antags. I win some i lose some, but i have a good time. I get that some of the player base doesnt like PVP but its not like they arent skilled players. So what reason could you give me other than "you dont like PVP" to get rid of the Antagonist system.

Further more Every person that dislikes both the Antgonist system and mentor matches only wishes to  get rid of it by making it possible to opt out of both. Yet they never offer up any solutions to try and fix the current system. Half these problems could be solved with a solid form of communication between players. The prompt system doesnt work. If players (both vet and rookie) could communicate more clearly, coordinating against antags and teaching rookies would be so much easier.

Snip

Only thing that's rough when you begin the game against antags is jack diddly for rewards and wasted time. That's what irked me back when I first started playing and what I feel for newer players today.

That being said, everyone is different. I love the gameplay so much, I didn't mind (most of the time) getting my ass kicked by antags. And it honestly made me a much better player. Not only helps being better against antags obviously, but also the PvE. It really sharpens your awareness and your ability to carry. As for as advantages/disadvantages in PvE, there are ALOT of variables that make that up, player level is just a small part of that. The game not being newbie friendly may not be good on MSE part to the sell the game, but it being a positive or negative is subjective. It's niche title anyway...

As for as folks quitting on sight when an antagonist shows up...don't know if it's a PC/XBox thing, but I play on PS4 and am level 168 and I have only seen that happen like 3 or 4 times through my playtime (and one of them is someone on this forum, who won't be named, but is a level 300+. You should be ashamed of yourself  ). But your mileage may vary I guess...

I'm not opposed to antags being optional, but that would mean less games for antags. I don't play antag personally, but if I did, that pissed me off. Since I don't, I have no strong feelings, but the PvP folk would have every right to get mad ... My personal opinion is to just penalize players a portion of their rewards who opt out of antag. Tier 5 (LV 1-19) won't get penalized, but after that penalty will be steeper the farther the tier.

For now, like I suggest to every anti-antag person, find a group on reddit, discord, gamefaqs, etc who feel the same as you do and squad up. You'll queue matches much faster and you can all surrender when an antag shows up.

PvP is just a one shot fest idk how anyone can enjoy that but whatever. And I was probably the lv 300 I don't really care about being exposed online tbh so feel free to do so.

[PohtHehd]

Oy vey. I understand peoples frustrations with the Antagonist system it can be broken at times. But please tell me how is it other players have such a hard time dealing with an Antag and i dont? How is it my games are so different from theirs that they would call for the Antagonist system to be removed or made optional? But before you answer let me give you a little insight on how i play the game.

When i jump on Spacelords I check to see what Bps are available and which ones have very high gold and faction rewards.  I play as a raider when try to obtain my daily rewards and when completed ill switch up and play as an Antag for a few games. I run in to my fair share antags. I win some i lose some, but i have a good time. I get that some of the player base doesnt like PVP but its not like they arent skilled players. So what reason could you give me other than "you dont like PVP" to get rid of the Antagonist system.

Further more Every person that dislikes both the Antgonist system and mentor matches only wishes to  get rid of it by making it possible to opt out of both. Yet they never offer up any solutions to try and fix the current system. Half these problems could be solved with a solid form of communication between players. The prompt system doesnt work. If players (both vet and rookie) could communicate more clearly, coordinating against antags and teaching rookies would be so much easier.

Snip

Only thing that's rough when you begin the game against antags is jack diddly for rewards and wasted time. That's what irked me back when I first started playing and what I feel for newer players today.

That being said, everyone is different. I love the gameplay so much, I didn't mind (most of the time) getting my ass kicked by antags. And it honestly made me a much better player. Not only helps being better against antags obviously, but also the PvE. It really sharpens your awareness and your ability to carry. As for as advantages/disadvantages in PvE, there are ALOT of variables that make that up, player level is just a small part of that. The game not being newbie friendly may not be good on MSE part to the sell the game, but it being a positive or negative is subjective. It's niche title anyway...

As for as folks quitting on sight when an antagonist shows up...don't know if it's a PC/XBox thing, but I play on PS4 and am level 168 and I have only seen that happen like 3 or 4 times through my playtime (and one of them is someone on this forum, who won't be named, but is a level 300+. You should be ashamed of yourself  ). But your mileage may vary I guess...

I'm not opposed to antags being optional, but that would mean less games for antags. I don't play antag personally, but if I did, that pissed me off. Since I don't, I have no strong feelings, but the PvP folk would have every right to get mad ... My personal opinion is to just penalize players a portion of their rewards who opt out of antag. Tier 5 (LV 1-19) won't get penalized, but after that penalty will be steeper the farther the tier.

For now, like I suggest to every anti-antag person, find a group on reddit, discord, gamefaqs, etc who feel the same as you do and squad up. You'll queue matches much faster and you can all surrender when an antag shows up.

PvP is just a one shot fest idk how anyone can enjoy that but whatever. And I was probably the lv 300 I don't really care about being exposed online tbh so feel free to do so.

Get

Good

<3

[Tekato]

Oy vey. I understand peoples frustrations with the Antagonist system it can be broken at times. But please tell me how is it other players have such a hard time dealing with an Antag and i dont? How is it my games are so different from theirs that they would call for the Antagonist system to be removed or made optional? But before you answer let me give you a little insight on how i play the game.

When i jump on Spacelords I check to see what Bps are available and which ones have very high gold and faction rewards.  I play as a raider when try to obtain my daily rewards and when completed ill switch up and play as an Antag for a few games. I run in to my fair share antags. I win some i lose some, but i have a good time. I get that some of the player base doesnt like PVP but its not like they arent skilled players. So what reason could you give me other than "you dont like PVP" to get rid of the Antagonist system.

Further more Every person that dislikes both the Antgonist system and mentor matches only wishes to  get rid of it by making it possible to opt out of both. Yet they never offer up any solutions to try and fix the current system. Half these problems could be solved with a solid form of communication between players. The prompt system doesnt work. If players (both vet and rookie) could communicate more clearly, coordinating against antags and teaching rookies would be so much easier.

Snip

Only thing that's rough when you begin the game against antags is jack diddly for rewards and wasted time. That's what irked me back when I first started playing and what I feel for newer players today.

That being said, everyone is different. I love the gameplay so much, I didn't mind (most of the time) getting my ass kicked by antags. And it honestly made me a much better player. Not only helps being better against antags obviously, but also the PvE. It really sharpens your awareness and your ability to carry. As for as advantages/disadvantages in PvE, there are ALOT of variables that make that up, player level is just a small part of that. The game not being newbie friendly may not be good on MSE part to the sell the game, but it being a positive or negative is subjective. It's niche title anyway...

As for as folks quitting on sight when an antagonist shows up...don't know if it's a PC/XBox thing, but I play on PS4 and am level 168 and I have only seen that happen like 3 or 4 times through my playtime (and one of them is someone on this forum, who won't be named, but is a level 300+. You should be ashamed of yourself  ). But your mileage may vary I guess...

I'm not opposed to antags being optional, but that would mean less games for antags. I don't play antag personally, but if I did, that pissed me off. Since I don't, I have no strong feelings, but the PvP folk would have every right to get mad ... My personal opinion is to just penalize players a portion of their rewards who opt out of antag. Tier 5 (LV 1-19) won't get penalized, but after that penalty will be steeper the farther the tier.

For now, like I suggest to every anti-antag person, find a group on reddit, discord, gamefaqs, etc who feel the same as you do and squad up. You'll queue matches much faster and you can all surrender when an antag shows up.

PvP is just a one shot fest idk how anyone can enjoy that but whatever. And I was probably the lv 300 I don't really care about being exposed online tbh so feel free to do so.

Get

Good

<3

Lol

[Level9Drow]

Wait, who is asking for antagonists system to be removed? All I've ever heard is to make PvP optional, so it can be a CHOICE for the player playing the game, not removing it. So those raiders who want improved rewards and/or PvP would opt in for PvP and so would have a chance of being invaded, whereas players who opt out would have no chance of being invaded.

[Ac3_f4ce]

@Tekato: I am not a Veteran. I did not play this game back when it was called "Raiders of the Broken Planet". If i am correct this game has already been out for more than year and has only recently converted and renamed Spacelords. I only started playing this game back in September. That being said I am level 120 and i started at the beginning just like everyone else.

Your proposed fix sounds like it could work. Its basically Crucible in Destiny where levels are eliminated so the playing field is evened out. Then you have Iron Banner where levels count. I'm not against that but I'm not entirely for it. No one wants to max out there weapons for it to be nerfed because its PVP. I want to see that damage, I want to feel good when i shoot my weapon.

When it comes to the Antagonist system, I think its been made clear by MSE they are sticking to their guns and keeping the system the way it is. Its not MSE's fault that PVE players are unhappy with this game. MSE never advertised this game was a PVE title its is a 4 v 1 pvp game. It says it right there on the homepage. They havent tried to sell you on anything else. You are not unhappy with the state of the game, you are unhappy with the game itself. You came into a game where you yourself wasnt the target audience.

[Level9Drow]

@Tekato: I am not a Veteran. I did not play this game back when it was called "Raiders of the Broken Planet". If i am correct this game has already been out for more than year and has only recently converted and renamed Spacelords. I only started playing this game back in September. That being said I am level 120 and i started at the beginning just like everyone else.

Your proposed fix sounds like it could work. Its basically Crucible in Destiny where levels are eliminated so the playing field is evened out. Then you have Iron Banner where levels count. I'm not against that but I'm not entirely for it. No one wants to max out there weapons for it to be nerfed because its PVP. I want to see that damage, I want to feel good when i shoot my weapon.

When it comes to the Antagonist system, I think its been made clear by MSE they are sticking to their guns and keeping the system the way it is. Its not MSE's fault that PVE players are unhappy with this game. MSE never advertised this game was a PVE title its is a 4 v 1 pvp game. It says it right there on the homepage. They havent tried to sell you on anything else. You are not unhappy with the state of the game, you are unhappy with the game itself. You came into a game where you yourself wasnt the target audience.

Duly noted and dismissed.

People will keep bringing it up regardless. And they should. If for anything for the developers to gauge the player-base, monitor the situation, and make decisions based on the feedback.

If they feel at any point it would be more advantageous to make it optional then they will do so. I cannot see all ends, and neither can any of the other players, so who knows what these circumstances may be. However, me and others like me will continue to keep this on the back burner and let the steam pipe in from time to time to keep the topic relevant. That's because it IS relevant, to a certain non-insignificant portion of the player-base. All we're doing is applying pressure.

Maybe they already have something in the works, maybe it will take another year, who knows. But we keep applying the pressure. We try not to be rude, mean, or toxic (we TRY), sometimes we get tilted over it, but we keep the feedback coming on on optional PvP. Even if it doesn't make them create optional PvP it might cause them to do something else they would not have normally done. But we're not going to be quiet because PvPers want us to, that's for sure.

EDIT: I'd like to think I have calmed down a lot. I won't lie, I still get tilted. But instead of leaving a melt down rant here I go to discord and leave a bit of feedback if I feel it was unfair and/or look at Spacelord memes there for a while and cool down before I play again. Because let's be honest, you don;t get an antag that often. I'd say every 1/7 or so games you get one. And out of those I get I win about 80%. This doesn't mean am ok with them happening, i endure them. but since antagonists is less of an issue now I feel it's unreasonable for me to get as upset as I used to and instead just take a time out. And for those of you who hate PvP like me, you know who you are, I highly recommend trying to manage the tilt more and just keep the pressure here on the forums.  I wouldn't bring up the rants again unless we see a giant increase in antagonist and it we get them more than 50% of the time.

[Ac3_f4ce]

@Drow. I haven't told anyone to be silent because they have different ideas for this game (as far as i can remember). I am trying to sway people to my side.  I also haven't shown anyone any disrespect by immediately dismissing what they say.

Tekato doesn't even play this game anymore, but I still listen to what he says. He was part of the player base. If you took my message to Tekato as dismissive, it wasnt. His idea to fix the PVP isn't a bad idea but i am skeptical. Honestly it have to be implemented for me to give and educated opinion on it. As well as point out that he may not be the targeted audience so maybe he could compromise on certain aspects of this game.

I am trying to get people to accept the game for what it is and work together to make the PVP better so that even PVE players could enjoy it. That meaning all players will continue to be part of Antag missions but they are still having fun.

[Level9Drow]

Fair enough. My apologies if it came off defensive.

[Urgehal]

PvP is just a one shot fest idk how anyone can enjoy that but whatever. And I was probably the lv 300 I don't really care about being exposed online tbh so feel free to do so.

Yeah...it can feel like a "one shot fest" at times, but it really does keep you on your toes and makes you approach the game differently. I'm neutral on the antag system really, but the chance of invasion keeps the game from being too stale, I'm okay with it.

And no, it wasn't you. Didn't you say you always offer surrender first? That I don't actually mind, but his guy just outright disconnected SMH...

[Ac3_f4ce]

Apology accepted. I know text can be dead at times and can be read in numerous ways.
Imagine though if this was physically a room filled with people. Everyone would have their hands around someone else neck. haha

[Level9Drow]

PvP is just a one shot fest idk how anyone can enjoy that but whatever. And I was probably the lv 300 I don't really care about being exposed online tbh so feel free to do so.

Yeah...it can feel like a "one shot fest" at times, but it really does keep you on your toes and makes you approach the game differently. I'm neutral on the antag system really, but the chance of invasion keeps the game from being too stale, I'm okay with it.

And no, it wasn't you. Didn't you say you always offer surrender first? That I don't actually mind, but his guy just outright disconnected SMH...

Your statement made me think of another reason I have an issue with the antagonists system. That's, do you choose characters anticipating an antag? do you choose characters you enjoy playing? Or do you choose characters best suited for the mission, a lot that are weak against antagonists? Remember, it's not like Overwatch, you can't go back and change you character to counter your opponent. And you also cannot see what the antagonists chooses.

It kind of sucks because you really don't have that total freedom.

As far as the disconnect goes. I won't mind that after the Guild update. This will mean we get a Cortez brother. And the Cortez brother doesn't take away from our life pool. This is actually amazing. Imagine having all 3 other players disconnecting, which has happened to me, and having 3 Cortez brothers against an antagonists. None of the kills on the brothers would matter. i guess for his aleph building it would. But you would be the only Raider that mattered and it would be hard for him to focus you. Especially if you were like Ginebra. You would have infinite spawning Allies.

[PohtHehd]

You forget one thing Drow.

If you're the only human player and you are running around as Ginebra..who is doing the objective? It isn't the Cortez bros.

In this very specific situation the Antagonist only has to wait and the longer it takes you to do the objective the more the Antagonist wins. Will the Cortez bros. search for the Antagonist? Will they just idle about once they lose a target? We simply don't know.

It also seems highly likely that the Cortez bros. will be scaled down in lethality to whatever the Antagonist's AI is set.

One thing is for sure; the AI will not be as optimal as a human player thinking and strategizing.