[Urgehal]

I can only count on 2 hands how much times I faced Valeria/Whip antag, but I personally never had trouble with her. Although to note, I don't play every level in the game and queue the same 6 levels most times (with the exception for blueprints or helping people out).

On certain levels I can imagine it being a b****, yeah...

[XjabberwockieX]

I ll go to vote surrender but still play. Im not trying to promote the rage quit culture. 

But yea man, I play as an Antag and i know that shit is cheap lol.

I always vote surrender on any antag match but ofc I'm forced to play through this 1 shot pvp mess with no real choice.

This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy. I already have to tolerate the blueprint system as it is, putting together win streaks and then HOPING to get the right blueprint to present itself and then HOPING the % gods allow me the opportunity to receive and build it. Now we have weak-willed players that refuse to participate/call for surrender at the first sign of an Antagonist. Let's be honest, the Antag may cause you to get a 7.5 on a mission rather than a 9, and fighting them may net you 1k gold instead of 1.5k good (Major difference..) It is only occasional occurrence though, by surrendering your messing up my opportunity to receive a blueprint I have worked torward just because ONE other human player is standing in your way and you don't like it. I understand if your team is on their third set of lives and the map/antagonist is dominating your team and your only on the first section, but surrendering instantly especially with new/low level players in the mix can hurt other players in the squad who give every mission all they have and lose that chance and have to go back to the drawing board because you don't want to try.

[Tekato]

I ll go to vote surrender but still play. Im not trying to promote the rage quit culture. 

But yea man, I play as an Antag and i know that shit is cheap lol.

I always vote surrender on any antag match but ofc I'm forced to play through this 1 shot pvp mess with no real choice.

This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy. I already have to tolerate the blueprint system as it is, putting together win streaks and then HOPING to get the right blueprint to present itself and then HOPING the % gods allow me the opportunity to receive and build it. Now we have weak-willed players that refuse to participate/call for surrender at the first sign of an Antagonist. Let's be honest, the Antag may cause you to get a 7.5 on a mission rather than a 9, and fighting them may net you 1k gold instead of 1.5k good (Major difference..) It is only occasional occurrence though, by surrendering your messing up my opportunity to receive a blueprint I have worked torward just because ONE other human player is standing in your way and you don't like it. I understand if your team is on their third set of lives and the map/antagonist is dominating your team and your only on the first section, but surrendering instantly especially with new/low level players in the mix can hurt other players in the squad who give every mission all they have and lose that chance and have to go back to the drawing board because you don't want to try.

Nobody ever accepts the surrender anyway tbh.  All it takes is one person to refuse and the rest of the team are forced to stay because if they disconnect they get punished.

[Level9Drow]

I ll go to vote surrender but still play. Im not trying to promote the rage quit culture. 

But yea man, I play as an Antag and i know that shit is cheap lol.

I always vote surrender on any antag match but ofc I'm forced to play through this 1 shot pvp mess with no real choice.

This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy. I already have to tolerate the blueprint system as it is, putting together win streaks and then HOPING to get the right blueprint to present itself and then HOPING the % gods allow me the opportunity to receive and build it. Now we have weak-willed players that refuse to participate/call for surrender at the first sign of an Antagonist. Let's be honest, the Antag may cause you to get a 7.5 on a mission rather than a 9, and fighting them may net you 1k gold instead of 1.5k good (Major difference..) It is only occasional occurrence though, by surrendering your messing up my opportunity to receive a blueprint I have worked torward just because ONE other human player is standing in your way and you don't like it. I understand if your team is on their third set of lives and the map/antagonist is dominating your team and your only on the first section, but surrendering instantly especially with new/low level players in the mix can hurt other players in the squad who give every mission all they have and lose that chance and have to go back to the drawing board because you don't want to try.

I understand what you are saying for the most part, but there are a few things that may help you understand the situation. Many people surrender at the beginning in order to save time and maintain productive progress. There's no point in surrendering 3 survives in because so much time was wasted already and surrendering won't bring back the lost time or save the situation, it's a shit show and a waste of time. Therefore the BEST time to surrender is as early as possible. This was the least amount of time is spent wasted on a potential loss.

But there's another issue here. If you lose a BP i should still be there after. You can keep attempting to get it. Correct me if I'm wrong people.

Lastly, this is the reality of non-optional PvP. I'm not blaming the antagonist for this. I'm also not blaming the Raiders for surrendering or playing halfhearted. But this is the result of PvP games the world over. EVERY game that has PvP has inevitable and unavoidable toxicity. This is one of a few reasons why some of us, not all, are asking for optional PvP.

We'll se what happens though. We got guilds around the corner.

[Jester278]

Schneider is just as bad, and a few others.

I actually played antag with whip on fistful of sand, vs a radier with whip, schneider, konstantin & a noob at level 5, I had no chance, all  were much higher ranks & I was getting destroyed until I killed the protector at the end, it was a bitterly unfair match.
That being said, I've been destroyed as antag, using whip, and done a fair share of destroying myself.
It's the luck of the draw & when you play experienced players, it's no easy feat winning as valeria, more so when they have a decent team.
it's all about tactics & she is far from defeatable on in medias res, I've won and lost on both sides, on that map.

[TheNobleWolf]

I ll go to vote surrender but still play. Im not trying to promote the rage quit culture. 

But yea man, I play as an Antag and i know that shit is cheap lol.

I always vote surrender on any antag match but ofc I'm forced to play through this 1 shot pvp mess with no real choice.

This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy. I already have to tolerate the blueprint system as it is, putting together win streaks and then HOPING to get the right blueprint to present itself and then HOPING the % gods allow me the opportunity to receive and build it. Now we have weak-willed players that refuse to participate/call for surrender at the first sign of an Antagonist. Let's be honest, the Antag may cause you to get a 7.5 on a mission rather than a 9, and fighting them may net you 1k gold instead of 1.5k good (Major difference..) It is only occasional occurrence though, by surrendering your messing up my opportunity to receive a blueprint I have worked torward just because ONE other human player is standing in your way and you don't like it. I understand if your team is on their third set of lives and the map/antagonist is dominating your team and your only on the first section, but surrendering instantly especially with new/low level players in the mix can hurt other players in the squad who give every mission all they have and lose that chance and have to go back to the drawing board because you don't want to try.

I understand what you are saying for the most part, but there are a few things that may help you understand the situation. Many people surrender at the beginning in order to save time and maintain productive progress. There's no point in surrendering 3 survives in because so much time was wasted already and surrendering won't bring back the lost time or save the situation, it's a shit show and a waste of time. Therefore the BEST time to surrender is as early as possible. This was the least amount of time is spent wasted on a potential loss.

But there's another issue here. If you lose a BP i should still be there after. You can keep attempting to get it. Correct me if I'm wrong people.

Lastly, this is the reality of non-optional PvP. I'm not blaming the antagonist for this. I'm also not blaming the Raiders for surrendering or playing halfhearted. But this is the result of PvP games the world over. EVERY game that has PvP has inevitable and unavoidable toxicity. This is one of a few reasons why some of us, not all, are asking for optional PvP.

We'll se what happens though. We got guilds around the corner.

He's talking about blueprints that require multiple wins in a row that your messing up by surrendering. They have to restart it again if the vote when through.

I play Antagonist 95% of the time so I dont know if its majority or all have to agree to the surrender but I can see how that would be annoying.

[Urgehal]

I ll go to vote surrender but still play. Im not trying to promote the rage quit culture. 

But yea man, I play as an Antag and i know that shit is cheap lol.

I always vote surrender on any antag match but ofc I'm forced to play through this 1 shot pvp mess with no real choice.

This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy. I already have to tolerate the blueprint system as it is, putting together win streaks and then HOPING to get the right blueprint to present itself and then HOPING the % gods allow me the opportunity to receive and build it. Now we have weak-willed players that refuse to participate/call for surrender at the first sign of an Antagonist. Let's be honest, the Antag may cause you to get a 7.5 on a mission rather than a 9, and fighting them may net you 1k gold instead of 1.5k good (Major difference..) It is only occasional occurrence though, by surrendering your messing up my opportunity to receive a blueprint I have worked torward just because ONE other human player is standing in your way and you don't like it. I understand if your team is on their third set of lives and the map/antagonist is dominating your team and your only on the first section, but surrendering instantly especially with new/low level players in the mix can hurt other players in the squad who give every mission all they have and lose that chance and have to go back to the drawing board because you don't want to try.

Yep, totally there with you. I only really surrender when there are multiple disconnects. But yikes, we really have folks that are level 300+ wanting to surrender/quit at the beginning, come on ya'll... 

Antags on (rare) blueprint levels is probably the biggest thing I dread in this game. The chance of "questionable teammates" and then the RNG afterwards is too much lol. But luckily I haven't had folks quit in those to the best of my memory.

[XjabberwockieX]

Thankyou Noblewolf, I mostly am frustrated when I'm needing to get the consecutive wins for a chance at a blueprint and then people want to surrender at first sign of trouble. I meant to mention that point more clearly than I did in my original post.
  To anyone I may have offended with my complaint, I apologize if it came off a bit harsh. I just get frustrated with the way things go sometimes.

[Level9Drow]

I ll go to vote surrender but still play. Im not trying to promote the rage quit culture. 

But yea man, I play as an Antag and i know that shit is cheap lol.

I always vote surrender on any antag match but ofc I'm forced to play through this 1 shot pvp mess with no real choice.

This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy. I already have to tolerate the blueprint system as it is, putting together win streaks and then HOPING to get the right blueprint to present itself and then HOPING the % gods allow me the opportunity to receive and build it. Now we have weak-willed players that refuse to participate/call for surrender at the first sign of an Antagonist. Let's be honest, the Antag may cause you to get a 7.5 on a mission rather than a 9, and fighting them may net you 1k gold instead of 1.5k good (Major difference..) It is only occasional occurrence though, by surrendering your messing up my opportunity to receive a blueprint I have worked torward just because ONE other human player is standing in your way and you don't like it. I understand if your team is on their third set of lives and the map/antagonist is dominating your team and your only on the first section, but surrendering instantly especially with new/low level players in the mix can hurt other players in the squad who give every mission all they have and lose that chance and have to go back to the drawing board because you don't want to try.

I understand what you are saying for the most part, but there are a few things that may help you understand the situation. Many people surrender at the beginning in order to save time and maintain productive progress. There's no point in surrendering 3 survives in because so much time was wasted already and surrendering won't bring back the lost time or save the situation, it's a shit show and a waste of time. Therefore the BEST time to surrender is as early as possible. This was the least amount of time is spent wasted on a potential loss.

But there's another issue here. If you lose a BP i should still be there after. You can keep attempting to get it. Correct me if I'm wrong people.

Lastly, this is the reality of non-optional PvP. I'm not blaming the antagonist for this. I'm also not blaming the Raiders for surrendering or playing halfhearted. But this is the result of PvP games the world over. EVERY game that has PvP has inevitable and unavoidable toxicity. This is one of a few reasons why some of us, not all, are asking for optional PvP.

We'll se what happens though. We got guilds around the corner.

He's talking about blueprints that require multiple wins in a row that your messing up by surrendering. They have to restart it again if the vote when through.

I play Antagonist 95% of the time so I dont know if its majority or all have to agree to the surrender but I can see how that would be annoying.

Well if Antagonists can claim that they're playing the game as intended and only using the functions of the games to players who hate forced PvP, then so to can the Raiders state they are using a function within the game as intended. No room for hypocrisy. Those who live by the sword die by the sword.

However, none of this would be a problem if PvP was optional. As long as it is mandated then people will use the surrender button, as it is not against the rules to use. Does this suck? Yes, it does. But so does an antagonists doing THE SAME THING to a raiders BP run. so I've got no tears here. Make it optional, and we can condemn players who surrender. Until then, it's the only way they can "legally" circumvent the waste of time.

[Ac3_f4ce]

I feel i need to clarify as well. I dont run at the sign of an Antag. Ill surrender if the Antag is completely destroying us with a cheap as trick like Valeria with whip. 

And to Clarify further, Valeria's whip only works on certain boards. If she can get you on a straight away or a choke point she is going to destroy you. Just to name a few. (No reservations, In Medias Res, Low Blow). If the area is small enough she can spam you from safety and hit the entire team and not have to move.

Now with that being said this was before the rework with BPs where if you didnt win the match or you lost on the roll for the BP you lost the BP entirely.  Now if you lose the match or even lose the roll its not that big a deal. The BP will remain there and i can just try again. I didnt surrender all that much to begin with now I pretty much run all missions unless half the team leaves then I;ll surrender.

Also, condemning players for rage quitting is one thing but i will stand by any player who proposes surrender and doesn't flat out  leave the match. The surrender button is there for that very reason.  I may not choose to surrender but i appreciate them asking for it and not just leaving us high and dry.

IN the future for players that choose to call for surrender on a mission and get out voted, i will try to stick with them during missions to help them out more.

[TheNobleWolf]

I ll go to vote surrender but still play. Im not trying to promote the rage quit culture. 

But yea man, I play as an Antag and i know that shit is cheap lol.

I always vote surrender on any antag match but ofc I'm forced to play through this 1 shot pvp mess with no real choice.

This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy. I already have to tolerate the blueprint system as it is, putting together win streaks and then HOPING to get the right blueprint to present itself and then HOPING the % gods allow me the opportunity to receive and build it. Now we have weak-willed players that refuse to participate/call for surrender at the first sign of an Antagonist. Let's be honest, the Antag may cause you to get a 7.5 on a mission rather than a 9, and fighting them may net you 1k gold instead of 1.5k good (Major difference..) It is only occasional occurrence though, by surrendering your messing up my opportunity to receive a blueprint I have worked torward just because ONE other human player is standing in your way and you don't like it. I understand if your team is on their third set of lives and the map/antagonist is dominating your team and your only on the first section, but surrendering instantly especially with new/low level players in the mix can hurt other players in the squad who give every mission all they have and lose that chance and have to go back to the drawing board because you don't want to try.

I understand what you are saying for the most part, but there are a few things that may help you understand the situation. Many people surrender at the beginning in order to save time and maintain productive progress. There's no point in surrendering 3 survives in because so much time was wasted already and surrendering won't bring back the lost time or save the situation, it's a shit show and a waste of time. Therefore the BEST time to surrender is as early as possible. This was the least amount of time is spent wasted on a potential loss.

But there's another issue here. If you lose a BP i should still be there after. You can keep attempting to get it. Correct me if I'm wrong people.

Lastly, this is the reality of non-optional PvP. I'm not blaming the antagonist for this. I'm also not blaming the Raiders for surrendering or playing halfhearted. But this is the result of PvP games the world over. EVERY game that has PvP has inevitable and unavoidable toxicity. This is one of a few reasons why some of us, not all, are asking for optional PvP.

We'll se what happens though. We got guilds around the corner.

He's talking about blueprints that require multiple wins in a row that your messing up by surrendering. They have to restart it again if the vote when through.

I play Antagonist 95% of the time so I dont know if its majority or all have to agree to the surrender but I can see how that would be annoying.

Well if Antagonists can claim that they're playing the game as intended and only using the functions of the games to players who hate forced PvP, then so to can the Raiders state they are using a function within the game as intended. No room for hypocrisy. Those who live by the sword die by the sword.

However, none of this would be a problem if PvP was optional. As long as it is mandated then people will use the surrender button, as it is not against the rules to use. Does this suck? Yes, it does. But so does an antagonists doing THE SAME THING to a raiders BP run. so I've got no tears here. Make it optional, and we can condemn players who surrender. Until then, it's the only way they can "legally" circumvent the waste of time.

Do you actually find PvE in this game fun? If this game had no Antagonist I would have been done with it a long time ago.

Although the game and levels are great I would find it really boring to play eventually if it was just AI. Like i said i play Antagonist 95% of the time because i find just PvE very stale but the challenge of other players feels rewarding even though I'm playing the same levels over and over again.

It's a 4v1 where the Antagonist is on the same level as you and the AI is really dumbed down. I do agree rewards should be more for playing against an Antagonist though.

[Level9Drow]

I ll go to vote surrender but still play. Im not trying to promote the rage quit culture. 

But yea man, I play as an Antag and i know that shit is cheap lol.

I always vote surrender on any antag match but ofc I'm forced to play through this 1 shot pvp mess with no real choice.

This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy. I already have to tolerate the blueprint system as it is, putting together win streaks and then HOPING to get the right blueprint to present itself and then HOPING the % gods allow me the opportunity to receive and build it. Now we have weak-willed players that refuse to participate/call for surrender at the first sign of an Antagonist. Let's be honest, the Antag may cause you to get a 7.5 on a mission rather than a 9, and fighting them may net you 1k gold instead of 1.5k good (Major difference..) It is only occasional occurrence though, by surrendering your messing up my opportunity to receive a blueprint I have worked torward just because ONE other human player is standing in your way and you don't like it. I understand if your team is on their third set of lives and the map/antagonist is dominating your team and your only on the first section, but surrendering instantly especially with new/low level players in the mix can hurt other players in the squad who give every mission all they have and lose that chance and have to go back to the drawing board because you don't want to try.

I understand what you are saying for the most part, but there are a few things that may help you understand the situation. Many people surrender at the beginning in order to save time and maintain productive progress. There's no point in surrendering 3 survives in because so much time was wasted already and surrendering won't bring back the lost time or save the situation, it's a shit show and a waste of time. Therefore the BEST time to surrender is as early as possible. This was the least amount of time is spent wasted on a potential loss.

But there's another issue here. If you lose a BP i should still be there after. You can keep attempting to get it. Correct me if I'm wrong people.

Lastly, this is the reality of non-optional PvP. I'm not blaming the antagonist for this. I'm also not blaming the Raiders for surrendering or playing halfhearted. But this is the result of PvP games the world over. EVERY game that has PvP has inevitable and unavoidable toxicity. This is one of a few reasons why some of us, not all, are asking for optional PvP.

We'll se what happens though. We got guilds around the corner.

He's talking about blueprints that require multiple wins in a row that your messing up by surrendering. They have to restart it again if the vote when through.

I play Antagonist 95% of the time so I dont know if its majority or all have to agree to the surrender but I can see how that would be annoying.

Well if Antagonists can claim that they're playing the game as intended and only using the functions of the games to players who hate forced PvP, then so to can the Raiders state they are using a function within the game as intended. No room for hypocrisy. Those who live by the sword die by the sword.

However, none of this would be a problem if PvP was optional. As long as it is mandated then people will use the surrender button, as it is not against the rules to use. Does this suck? Yes, it does. But so does an antagonists doing THE SAME THING to a raiders BP run. so I've got no tears here. Make it optional, and we can condemn players who surrender. Until then, it's the only way they can "legally" circumvent the waste of time.

Do you actually find PvE in this game fun? If this game had no Antagonist I would have been done with it a long time ago.

Although the game and levels are great I would find it really boring to play eventually if it was just AI. Like i said i play Antagonist 95% of the time because i find just PvE very stale but the challenge of other players feels rewarding even though I'm playing the same levels over and over again.

It's a 4v1 where the Antagonist is on the same level as you and the AI is really dumbed down. I do agree rewards should be more for playing against an Antagonist though.

This isn't really an argument, this is an opinion of preference. Again, making it optional would allow both parties (those who prefer and those who dislike pvp) to play the game as they enjoy it. but to tell the other side "this isn't fun, how can you enjoy this it's boring" isn't going to work. We have our reasons, and they're our own.

However, since the game has no option some of us, not all, surrender all the time. Because we don't like it. this doesn't mean you are wrong for liking it though, it just means there are different taste and this is how we cope.

[TheNobleWolf]

Yeah I got what your saying not trying to start an argument haha. Only thing I wouldnt like is it would mean an even longer wait when playing when it's already long.

Only solution I see is if it's going to be optional they will have to make people want to play with an Antagonist by severely lowering rewards for no Antagonist and severely increase it with one.