Author Topic: The Enemy Within Difficulty  (Read 4912 times)

Argentil

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The Enemy Within Difficulty
on: November 16, 2017, 12:41:21 PM
So I've been holding back on commenting about this for a while, because there were some difficulty reduction changes made to this level recently. After playtesting a bit more, I've come to the conclusion that this map is still overtuned (without an antagonist). I have a 4 out of 5 games as a loss on this map, and the one victory was because there was an antagonist in the game to reduce the PvE difficulty. I don't enjoy playing this map, as it usually results in a long-winded loss as we get to about 80-90% completion before getting overrun by Uras-Beherit's mutant babies.

The rest of the map difficulty is much more manageable, as it was almost impossible to even get past the first stage with +54% difficulty without the adds spawning faster than raiders can clear them. I would just like to suggest maybe revisiting this map's difficulty, and reducing the spawn rate of the monsters in the final phase by a touch. If you are recording winrates on maps, you should have a good idea of whether the map is too overtuned at higher difficulties (without an antagonist), so I will defer to your know-how. Right now it feels like you need the perfect combination of raiders, with high skill levels to even have a chance of completing this map in PvE.

Derclaw

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Re: The Enemy Within Difficulty
Reply #1 on: November 16, 2017, 06:36:59 PM
Well I can say that this map has some heavy handed difficulty curve for sure that skyrockets into oblivion after second Alef overload ends.

But all is not lost. Me and my buddy were farming this mission for a LOOONG time - and we are getting pretty good  at it either with antagonist or not, trick is in having characters that on your team that know what they do:

Hans with "WARM" gun - perfect for firsth phase, good for clearing and avoiding beherit spawns and does well vs blobs.

Konstantine with either OGON STORM or Hornet - simmilar affair but you trade burst DPS for sustained DPS choosing different guns with him. Good overall at every stage and at dealing with beherit spawns, really bad at running.

Ginebra with her unlockable guns - if you can aim well she can pretty much oneshot blobs and beherits and can run from them for days. Do not use her basic gun there - its useless and people will hate you for a good reason.

Mikah with unlockable guns - you can "climb holo-glitch" to make unkillable bait for beherits, you do ok at every stage, the only problem is that you must conserve ammo big time.

Suboptimal but still fine:
Shae WITH FOCUS KAA7 ONLY - then you do fine more or less. DO NOT bring Shae with any other gun - you will have good time at stage 1 shooting squids, but in stage 2 you will be useless at doing anything.

Harek with base gun - you will do fine, but if Beherit will ever hit you with his AoE you can instantly bite the dust - oneshoting blobs are fun thou.

Avoid:
Kuzman - takes ages to kill anything, especially blobs. Can once in while kill a tons of beherit spawns with well placed skill - but better not get into such stage of spawnage.

Alicia - just no. You can run fast, you can avoid stuff, but you cant clear spawns for good and must stay nearby blobs (and thats not an option vs some of them)

Dion - same as alicia, made worse by the fact that your shield is useless in second stage. You can kinda do it with "It Happens", but I still think you better be using someone else.
 

Argentil

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Re: The Enemy Within Difficulty
Reply #2 on: November 16, 2017, 06:45:37 PM
That's what I'm referring to though, the map shouldn't be so tightly tuned that you HAVE to take those characters, and can't take others. 60% on this map doesn't feel like 60% on any of the others.

Derclaw

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Re: The Enemy Within Difficulty
Reply #3 on: November 16, 2017, 06:50:27 PM
Other thing is to not rush the overload. Ofc its hard to do in uncoordinated team but basicly what you should do is:
Step 1) - Donate all but 1 point of Alef immediatley.
Step 2) -Try to accumulate 4-6 points ammong all your team (may skip if Beherit on his last leg - use your best judjement if you gonna finish it on next overload or not - better safe then sorry)
Step 3) - All players kill as many spawns as you can
Step 4) - Activate overlaod
Step 5) - KILL ALL REMAINING SPAWNS BEFORE FOCUSING BLOBS - you will lose more time being dead from random bastard sneaking on you then you will spend time killing him. They dont respawn during overload stage so once you killed them they are gone for good.
Step 6) - Shoot blobs
Step 7) - Proceed to step 1 (DO NOT instantly intiate another overload! Let people regain their ammo and clear spawns again)

If all done well - this mission will be no problem.

Random tips:
- Beherit spawns have around 350-420 HP - some weapons can one-two shot them
- Blobs have Around 350-400 hp - same thing - some weapons one shot bloobs in perfect conditions
- Don't be fancy with "Shadow self" if your reaction is not good - pure melee spammage will work well surprising ammount of time.

Derclaw

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Re: The Enemy Within Difficulty
Reply #4 on: November 16, 2017, 06:57:15 PM
That's what I'm referring to though, the map shouldn't be so tightly tuned that you HAVE to take those characters, and can't take others. 60% on this map doesn't feel like 60% on any of the others.
Well other missions have suboptimal characters too. 
Kuzman is bad on first stage of "Ray of hope", Harek is bad on second stage of "In Shock" etc.

The fact that Konstantine is good at dealing dmg is just... what it is, Hans burning stationary targets with gun that designed to burn stationary targets? I mean this game is all about finding right tools for the job. Like you can make most characters work there - but not with stock guns for some of them.

Argentil

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Re: The Enemy Within Difficulty
Reply #5 on: November 16, 2017, 09:04:25 PM
Well other missions have suboptimal characters too. 
Kuzman is bad on first stage of "Ray of hope", Harek is bad on second stage of "In Shock" etc.

You're completely missing the point of this thread, this level is far and away harder than any of the others. And I have to laugh at the quote, because personally I find Harec and Kuzmann to be incredibly strong in both of those maps. Kuzmann is my go-to pick in A Breath of Hope if someone else wants to play Hans. He devastates adds on all of the maps, and keeps waves under control. Perhaps you should try a different build for those respective characters, since we're giving "How-to-play-the-game" lessons here.

Power Penguin

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Re: The Enemy Within Difficulty
Reply #6 on: November 18, 2017, 08:49:18 PM
Hate the fact that Konstantin and Shae's powers are worthless in the second half of the mission.